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b_electro
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I'm considering using a CSS framework like 960gs or Blueprint for a news site I'm designing. Here's a static image of the frontpage, with grid overlay: http://i.imgur.com/Shc7V.jpg. The grid has eight 110px wide columns with 10px wide gutters. Total width is 950px.

I've never developed with a pre-fab framework but this is going to be a big build, so it would be nice to take advantage of something made for rapid prototyping. Does anyone have any suggestions on which system would best lend itself to my design?

Thanks!
B

Hugo
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It may make your life easier

It may make your life easier but for others following on , possibly having to maintain site code these grids are a nightmare unless they are well experienced with them.

Worked with both, hated both! CSS / markup was never meant to be reduced to a framework, these attempts are full of bad practises, over marked up layouts, bad naming conventions.

Can't really - as someone who can actually cope with writing markup / layouts - recommend either but at a pinch think the 960 would have the edge slightly.

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Verschwindende
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I've looked at these grid

I've looked at these grid systems and I can't find one single reason to use them. What is the advantage? I can't see it. Designers need to stay off of my lawn! Darn kids!

Hugo
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Actually happen to be working

Actually happen to be working with Blueprint at the moment, hadn't realised as my remit is to simply set site up and make minor style changes, it's woven into an equally insane scripting framework called YII which manages to obscure all reasonable access to files under a plethora of worklets, controllers, all written as OOP class construct jazz, had to add ONE link to the footer! took half an hour and editing of three files first had to create a new 'behaviour' in a new 'custom module' file then had to find a filter file to extend the class workletFilter for the new behaviour, finally had to tell another file that a new module needed to be installed at which point I could log in as admin and run a command to install a custom module - All for one external link.

Frameworks written in this manner are simply pointless, to break down each file / page into so many desperate actions makes tracking script flow impossible, and unless you are firmly entrenched in OOPs programming every little action is a struggle, programmers need to be kept away from web development or at least from the 'views'.

Apologies @ b_electro for ranting on your thread, but as you may be able to tell frameworks can be so frustrating and do NOT necessarily make work flow easier or smarter in fact the exact reverse can be true, I do not, however, dismiss frameworks out of hand as in the simplest sense for my own purposes always write sites as a form of framework using includes, library functions, crude template tags, and the odd class constructor but at the end of the day I remember that it's ultimately front end coding that matters and any scripting should never intrude or prevent easy modification to views.

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Verschwindende
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It makes me wonder if they

It makes me wonder if they purposely make something impossible to understand to keep themselves in a job. Stare

Hugo
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Well paying the licence fee

Well paying the licence fee for the app is meant to give you source code and support, source code? without documentation? licence key locked so I can't run a local dev copy of the site to experiment with, app consists of 3680 files in 1090 folders!!?? what! how, it's not that complicated a site.

I actually think some people believe this approach is easier, but it's simply not, I would love to hear the argument that all these modules, extending classes, worklets, base modules, components makes work flow RAD but maybe it does once you have invested the time in learning it

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Verschwindende
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Hugo wrote: ... but maybe it

Hugo wrote:

... but maybe it does once you have invested the time in learning it

I'd put money against. Wink

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I've been taking a look at

I've been taking a look at http://cssgrid.net/ in preparation for redesigning my site. I'm probably going to strip most of it out and just the widths and margins as a guide together with the media queries and change the fixed widths to ems to make the layout elastic.

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b_electro
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WOW! I didn't expect such a

WOW! I didn't expect such a negative reaction to the available frameworks out there. But I really appreciate the honesty. I have absolutely no desire to clutter up my code or add any more complexity to the dev phase.

And now I don't feel so bad that I've never used the 960 grid system. Wink

Thanks,
B

Verschwindende
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Tyssen wrote:I've been

Tyssen wrote:

I've been taking a look at http://cssgrid.net/ in preparation for redesigning my site. I'm probably going to strip most of it out and just the widths and margins as a guide together with the media queries and change the fixed widths to ems to make the layout elastic.

Quote:

The 1140 grid fits perfectly into a 1280 monitor. On smaller monitors it becomes fluid and adapts to the width of the browser.

Beyond a certain point it uses media queries to serve up a mobile version, which essentially stacks all the columns on top of each other so the flow of information still makes sense.

Scrap 1024! Design once at 1140 for 1280, and with very little extra work, it will adapt itself to work on just about any monitor, even mobile.

OK, now that makes sense. I like how it changes depending on the available width. It makes creating layouts for

Hugo
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@ b_electro I guess comments

@ b_electro I guess comments are seemingly negative, well are negative Smile but I think this is a topic that does engender this sort of reaction and discussion with opinion divided on the subject. Don't, necessarily, let my opinion put you off the use of a framework, I would have a look at the link Tyssen mentions, as if Tyssen is considering it then likely he has already determined it's not absolute Mush Smile

@Tyssen What I simply do not get is why on earth you would feel the need to use something like this? I know for sure that you are more than a capable CSSer and can write CSS layouts in your sleep so why the need to use a framework to do stuff that in reality you have absolutely no trouble doing yourself? I'm genuinely interested as I can see a purpose to them in some senses and the possibility that in fact I could make use of them, but then again as someone that can competently write layouts to an good degree it bothers me that I would make use of others work, I would feel as though I were cheating? too some extent (a slightly daft way of thinking granted).

As for this notion of screen adjustment I don't get that I can manage to create layouts with combinations of fluid / fixed widths that suite browser expansion / contraction not sure what they have achieved that is so smart, but I probably need to look at the code to understand what exactly they have done.

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Tyssen
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Hugo wrote: @Tyssen What I

Hugo wrote:

@Tyssen What I simply do not get is why on earth you would feel the need to use something like this?

Partly laziness - someone's already done all the maths necessary for working out percentages of columns at different widths - and partly because I've not done any work with media queries before and just want a point from which to start from. I'm probably only going to incorporate about 10% of what they've done into what I ultimately use. When I eventually get it done, in say a year or two from now, you can all take a look. Wink

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Hugo
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Ah yes pretty much all the

Ah yes pretty much all the reasons I could think of that might persuade me to try one out - although I would substitute 'laziness' with 'pressure of having to jump around dealing with too many different aspects of a job to have time to spend in depth on one aspect' oh ok yes 'laziness'

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