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Hugo
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Grids?

Seems we can't escape them, more and more people using them, more and more articles about their validity and awesomeness. more and more inexperienced coders jumping into web development aided by tools that cover their lack of knowledge and experience, tweets re-tweeting articles that further bolster the belief these things MUST be used.

Problem is that there comes a point where there's a ground swell which is unavoidable and so many using these things - crutches - that to not do so marks you out as somehow ignorant and you find gradually that you must confirm to the masses or face being ostracised.

I despair - if I had known these tools would have come to the fore I would never have bothered with HTML or CSS, pointless learning something in fair depth to find it's knowledge no one is interested in Sad

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Tony
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I have looked at grids and

I have looked at grids and struggle to see the need for them.
They are very popular at the moment.
Grids provide structure to restrict the designer imagination, so that they can make cookie cut sites easily Smile

When you think about it, grid is just a term for structure and even without using a 'Grid System' we are still structuring sites in a grid.

I was working on a site yesterday that had no structure just content, apart from a menu, logo and a couple of images floated left or right.
No need for media queries. It was a translation of a Japanese site, in Japan most web users use phones to web browse and many are smaller screened phones.
The site worked perfectly in any browser or device you could throw at it.

I tweet about CSS and web development tools, techniques and try to be relavent to people with experience as well as people just getting started.
As part of that I tweet about techniques that I may not use.

Hugo
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stop making excuses

stop making excuses Tongue

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Hugo
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There is a danger in these

There is a danger in these 'tools' though as they develop a generation of non developers and many of those are quite vocal and defensive of their ignorance, unwilling to learn- sadly though this usage extends to the new breed of 'programmer' that tends to run projects nowadays.

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Tony
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Ohh yes I must agree about

Ohh yes I must agree about the vocal side of things.
When we came to the web it was important to be anonymous, now days the web is completely different.

In an attempt to become more relevant to today's web, I need to come out of my cave and contemplate with Gary on the rock.

Hugo
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I feel pressured to have to

I feel pressured to have to be using 'Less' 'grids' all sorts of tools otherwise I'm regarded with suspicion even if I do attempt a clear explanation of why with experience these things are not necessary, and yes realise I have to start being much more vocal in various communities.

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Tony
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Too much to keep your head

Too much to keep your head around these days.
I have mad a few feeble attempts to use Less or Sass and really haven't seen any benefit.
Grids seems to be what designers want and what people expect.
Actually they expect gids with responsive media queries and lots of unnecessary JavaScript, oh and modernizr just because.

Write a blog post on creating a layout without grids, or something along those lines, i'll tweet about it Smile

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Copied without permission cos

Copied without permission cos it made me laugh:

Quote:

//edit: Gag! There is no sane reason for an element to have four classes assigned to it. Every time I look at an example of this 960 grid stuff I get PO'd all over again. It's not your fault; people who should know better have been pushing this idiocy for quite a while now. It appeals to those who are not knowledgeable web developers because it is a "system"; a system that makes what are simple layouts for people in the know into cast iron be-otches to debug or maintain. OK, rant over for a bit. ~gt

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gary.turner
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Uh oh

Hugo wrote:

Copied without permission cos it made me laugh:

Um, Hugo, you really should have consulted my copyright agent regarding usage fees. My shysters will be in touch with your shysters. Be well. Crazy

g

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

mihirc
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Hello Guys, Was away on a

Hello Guys,

Was away on a trek for the last couple of days and missed this discussion! i dont think people really care about what goes behind the code as long as the design looks perfect. why so, a couple of new team members joined my office and they had this really really bad practice of watching each and every piece of css they wrote in the "Dreamweaver preview"! I was so annoyed and it took my months to move them away from that practice.

As far as the grid layout goes, i agree with tony, everything we do is a grid anyways. Its just that we dont call it the grid. considering the fact that each element is a block and if we were to draw a wireframe, then it would be a grid. When i revisited the forum a few months back, i saw the poll on what Lass & Sass was! I still dont know, and i really dont care. because for what i know, i know my css well.

As far as the social media goes, @Hugo - "sharing is like spreading love", i guess Tony's just spreading some love for css on the internet.

Just my thoughts,
Mihir.

Proprietor - Thoughtfulviewfinder Services
Web Development | Design | Merchandise | Photography
My personal blog: MihirChhatre.com

adlerengle
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web designing

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Danny555
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Well i am to tally agree with

Well i am to tally agree with you.Thanx for sharing your views.