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t-bone_two
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I have looked and looked and cannot get a good answer to this question.

If you want to layout your site normally in CSS. Then take all the textual content and include the appropriate tags without having to go to the style sheet and alter all the default styles. Have all that content at the very top, place it all in one DIV container and then use absolute positioning to push it out of the viewable page area.

Is this a problem? And will it cause problems with google?

CupidsToejam
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search bots do not read you

search bots do not read you css files. Can you explain why you'd want to take this approach? why move the important content off the screen? If you simply push it off to the side, it will not disappear. scrollbars will appear.

t-bone_two
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I want to take all the core

I want to take all the core content. Place it in a single container. Minimize the code. Use - tags without styling them in the core content or having code blocks between sections. Then push all that content to the far far left where it is never seen to increase SEO. I don't care about scroll bars or any of that. I can use absolute positioning and push it left 200px. And have all the necessary text and code at the top with the appropriate headings without the headache of going into my stylesheet and overriding the default styles - implement.

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None of this makes any sense

None of this makes any sense to me.

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like i said, bots (google) do

like i said, bots (google) do not read nor care about your css. they will read the html files. If you have the important content high up in your html, thats good SEO. so pushing the content will not boost SEO, just give your viewers a headache. I hope this answers your question. If not, heres a simple answer; no, it will not bother google if you do that.

t-bone_two
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According to my reading of

According to my reading of how google analyzes pages you want a low code to text ratio. So less code and more text is ideal. So when you break sections up. You put tags and such inbetween them.

So you can build the site in it's entirety.

#content
{
position:absolute;
left:800px;
width:300px;
overflow:scroll;
}
<div id = "content">
ALL SITE CONTENT
</div>

Thereby essentially eliminating all code between the core content and putting all the important text at the very top of the page. The user will never see that content. As it will be pushed waaay off of the page. But it will eliminate the code used to break up sections and such. And the page can be more easily structured with h1-h6 tags without having to go in and apply the styles to the layout. I can in fact put the entire site in a single container and break down the headings in about 5 minutes after I complete the design. Then validate it and the layout and outline flows perfectly.

The question is whether or not this is considered "Black Hat" because you can technically write anything you want in that container.

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What I am saying

You build an entire site with all the styling and such to make it look nice.

Then you take the core content / textual data only. Place it in a div ID directly below the body tag so it is the first thing on the page.

Then remove any code you have for sections such as header, footer, etc. so that it is just straight text.

You organize that content according to importance using h1-6 tags.

You then take that container and use CSS and absolute positioning to push it off the page thereby removing any code for google to weed through and having all your content flow in an unobstructed order.

I have done it and a I get good validation. And when I output the outline it flows perfectly and it is much easier then embedding h1-6 tags on elements then overriding the default styles and margins.

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I'm reading this with

I'm reading this with increasing bewilderment but haven't time to really work out what you are trying to do but can tell you that you seem to be following some really bad advice. Can you tell us what you have been reading that leads you down this extremely odd path.

It's too late now but I'll come back to this in the morning and try and work out just quite what you think you are achieving but for now I'll tell you this is all sounds worryingly wrong.

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
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Please post ALL your code - both CSS & HTML - in [code] tags
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t-bone_two
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New Techniques

I am evaluating a new technique. I am reading documents about how google reads pages. And the trend is such that more relevant words = higher relevant searches.

Because Google is blind to page layout then you embed code to partition sections.

But I think it is possible and possibly could be beneficial to take all the textual content in a document and consolidate it inside a single tag. Then h1-6 all the content in that tag. Place it directly below the head. Set the position to absolute in the stylesheet. Then push it 1000px left with negligible increase in file weight and more effective crawl by google. Which usually reads top down and often not the all the content . . .

I am not saying it is standard practice.

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If I am reading this

If I am reading this correctly, you plan on putting content in your code that will be hidden by your CSS from standard viewers.
From my understanding of Google, is that this is the same as "black on black" and if found will very negatively effect your rankings, if not get your site banned entirely.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

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Not Black on Black

It is not like doing display:none

or doing anything to control font size or any of that.

It allows all the content to flow inside a single container with do div tags or Id's separating content.

You simply put all of the text in a single container and easily set your h tags without having to do anything to the styles so the textual content of the entire site can appear directly beneath the body tag with nothing but text falling under i† using no additional classes or really any additional code at all.

It is not a matter of doing display:none. Or putting whit text on a white background. It is putting all the textual data of the entire site in a single container and using absolute positioning to push it off the page.

The idea is so that all the text is directly below the body tag with minimal markup and the whole site can be put at the top of the html page without any of the code needed to section the site . . .

Could be a bad idea . . . which is why I am asking for opinions,

Hugo
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t-bone_two wrote: I am

t-bone_two wrote:

I am evaluating a new technique. I am reading documents about how google reads pages. And the trend is such that more relevant words = higher relevant searches.

Because Google is blind to page layout then you embed code to partition sections.

But I think it is possible and possibly could be beneficial to take all the textual content in a document and consolidate it inside a single tag. Then h1-6 all the content in that tag. Place it directly below the head. Set the position to absolute in the stylesheet. Then push it 1000px left with negligible increase in file weight and more effective crawl by google. Which usually reads top down and often not the all the content . . .

I am not saying it is standard practice.

No absolutely forget all notion of this!

It's utter tripe Smile (tripe: stomach lining of a sheep or cow)

Google is blind to page layout? how so, by what definition?

The only thing of any importance is your Markup (DOM), this has a structure or form and layout!

Ignore all CSS, CSS is a presentational devise and as such is largely irrelevant (the only time it matters is in the browser defaults used to ensure screen visual rendering that makes sense)

View your page without any presentation - view just the markup as this is what Google reads and Google expects to find a correctly formed structured document and it knows how to read one.

It's true that Google looks for certain page elements and content is naturally highly important but do not try and take overt steps to trick Google into thinking your content is somehow clearer, Google is quite capable of finding content for it's self.

True is the fact that you do not want a tonne of scripting in the head don't make Google struggle to find content but that said it will still manage to find what it needs. There used to be a rule of thumb that said that Google only trawled through the first 300 lines of a document and is why one didn't want loads of embedded scripting or styles using up that quota, I doubt this 300 line does hold true though; I'm working with highly scripted dynamic sites that punch out a horrendous amount of non content type code yet Google manages to find what content does exist on a page with no problem whatsoever.

By all means take the Source Ordering approach if writing columnar style structures, i.e place your content first before your sidebars in the markup then use CSS to pull the layout together as you please.

At the end of the day don't try and be clever, Google is clever enough without your help and you in reality are more likely to inadvertently perform some transgression that Google dislikes and penalises you for.

For interests sake why don't you rough out your notion of a page i.e the markup, ignoring any styling and post it up for us to critique?

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
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Please post ALL your code - both CSS & HTML - in [code] tags
Please validate and ensure you have included a full Doctype before posting.
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Tyssen
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Yeah, as Hugo says, bad idea.

Yeah, as Hugo says, bad idea. Any good SEO will tell you that you should create your pages with humans in mind first, not search engines. Search engines like pages that are intended to be read by people. Code to text ratio is just one factor that influences the SERPS, but if you abuse it, you'll negate any benefit you might receive from it.

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t-bone_two
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Code

You asked to see the code. So for the sake of good feedback I will post it.

Keep in mind that the container can be used for keywords and such.

And in this particular layout the styles are left inline though for a real presentation they would be broken off.

It avoids the annoying default styling placed by heading tags. And once a site is finished and the text is there. I can build it in a matter of minutes. Index it with the appropriate headings and throw in a few additional keywords.

If this is bad practice. I would honestly like to know why? Google does not look at keywords per say any longer. By breaking off your stylesheet and putting all the core content as archaically basic with nothing but a single ID below the head. It seems to me like it would result in better performance.

But not only that maybe I could add a few paragraphs including the genus name and species of the tomatoes or some other things that I just dont want in the body copy.

It has a black hat mentality. But the "black hat" tactics I read are bolstering your keywords in your meta tag. Setting font sizes to 0. And placing white text on a white background and making links 1px high. display:none, etc. I have found nothing about this as a red flag at all.

I have ran some beta testing of some additional keyword inserts done in this manner and it is pulling them up.

This is just a really rough and nasty example not related to the work I am doing. But it validates and also outlines nicely.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
 <html>
<head>
<title>Sample Page</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
 <STYLE type="text/css">
#content
{
position:absolute;
width:300px;
height:300px;
overflow:scroll;
right:3000px;
}
#master_container
{
margin:0px auto;
width:800px;
font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
border-style:solid;
}
#heading
{
position:relative;
text-align:center;
}
.sections li
{
display:inline;
padding-right:40px;
list-style-type:none;
}
#getting_started
{
width:300px;
display:inline;
float:left;
text-align:justify;
}
.title
{
font-weight:bold;
color:red;
font-size:24px;
}
#best_methods
{
position:relative;
width:400px;
text-align:justify;
float:right;
display:inline;
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div id = "content">
	<h1>How to Grow the Biggest Tomatoes on Earth</h1>
	<h2>Home Store Seeds Practices Soil C02 Soil Aeration Pests</h2>
	<h2>Keywords: Tomatoes, farming, soil, aeration, other words, any words I want, anything additionally I want to add related to tomatoes.</h2>
	<h2>Getting Started</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.</h3> 
	<h2>Best Methods</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis.</h3> 
</div>
 
<div id = "master_container">
 
	<div id = "heading">How to Grow the Biggest Tomates on Earth<br>
		<div class = "sections">
			<ul>
				<li><a href = "">Home</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Store</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Seeds</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Practice</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Soil</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">C02</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Aeration</a></li>
			</ul>
		</div>
	</div>
 
	<div id = "getting_started"><br><br><br>
	<span class = "title">Geting Started</span><br>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.<br><br>
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	</div>
 
	<div id = "best_methods"><br><br><br>
	<span class = "title">Best Methods</span><br>
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.<br><br>
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	</div>
 
</div>
</body>
</html>

Hugo
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Here's the crux though t-bone

Here's the crux though t-bone or at least I think it is and leaving all notions of what you say you will do behind and taking simply the markup you have shown this is simply what any of us do, bar a few niggles with lack of semantic elements i.e paragraph tags, this is simply a normal structure if you are now going to go and repeat that content in some manner i.e what looks to be the second structure on the same page then that is wrong. Google would have no issue with that page, add necessary CSS to style your elements and away you go trying to get Google to see your page in any better a light simply is pointless, expend your energy in other areas such as quality back links to the site pages. Also bear one thing in mind and it's an error I have come across before internal page/site links are important as well don't consider them valueless Google needs to see them.

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
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Verschwindende
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Would this be considered a

Would this be considered a new version of "keyword stuffing"?

t-bone_two
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It depends

That term in regard to "black hat" seo deals with the use in the head / meta context. Not the body.

Technically. Yes.

gary.turner
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Google completely ignores the

Google completely ignores the meta keyword data, but that does not mean it ignores keywords. Google expects to find contextual keywords. You can use Google's webmaster tools to find out just what Google sees in your site. For example, they can give you a list of search terms that people used to find and click through to your pages, a list of search terms that returned your pages and the position your pages had, or a list of what Google considers keywords in your pages and their significance to your content.

Take some time to match the vocabulary of your page to the terms people use when trying to find you. Over the past year or so, I've reworded some copy in various pages on my site to better match search terms, and had traffic from search engines increase a hundred-fold; from about 10–20 visitors per month to over 1500. (Search engines are not a major resource for me, but that's still a significant increase for very little effort.) If you try stuffing, you only dilute the values of all the words. And, if Google ever gets the idea you're playing loose with "SEO", they will leave you to Bing; then see what your traffic is.

cheers,

gary

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

Verschwindende
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http://www.youtube.com/user/G

t-bone_two
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Incorrect Video

I believed you posted an incorrect link to the wrong video as that one was less than 3 minutes long.

Verschwindende
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Yeah, looks like you're

Yeah, looks like you're correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6QRv_bCzEI
pay attention to 4:26 - 4:37

t-bone_two
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Yes, But

Yes. Yes. Yes.

But your completely missing my point here.

What they are saying is design the site for the user not the bot. That is a given. The site is designed for the user. And in essence the content served in the method I am speaking of is the core data the user is getting with NO style elements. All the content is there. Just without the markup maze. And of all the elements there the weight is negligible as it is just text.

When you design a web page it is full of

<div class> <div id> <span class> <br> &amp; &nbsp; <ul><li> id= java, etc etc etc

All of which have absolutely nothing to do with the core textual content that the user sees at all other than styling it and making it look more visually appealing. And statistically, according to googlebot and crawlers java and tags and such actually trip up the process. Cause wrong information to be indexed etc. etc. etc.

And it is a fact with the data I have read that where things fall in the body is of vital importance. If it can all fall directly under the body tag with only one id separating all the content . . . I say hoorah! It cannot get any clearer as to what the page is about.0

The thing is that this type of tactic is open for a host of abuse because technically you can stuff it. But using it rationally and ethically . . . considering one proven fact is text is the lightest thing there is. I do not see how in any way this would do anything but make the page easier to crawl and the data easier to access.

Because what we are talking about is archaic next to non-existent markup preceding the styled content which is completely littered in code sections, java and partitions.

The only barrier directly to the content without any interference is

<div id = "content">ALL TEXT HERE WITH APPROPRIATE TAGS</div>

To be honest, I am really liking what I get with it. I am sure there are people who will speak to the contrary.

In this example. Which I have uploaded below. What I encourage you to do is disable java completely. Just look at the data. you get. And what you get is exactly what the site is in a textual basis. And there is no HTML markup in it at all.

Sample

The fact of the matter is head tags are great. They help the site get indexed. But they are also a pain considering they have default styles and margin properties. Doing this after I am done with a site . . . I can literally set my watch and have the whole thing done in 5 minutes including the H tags. And it all validates and the outline is cleaner and more cohesive than going through lines of code making sure it's on the right side of the tags and such. That the margins adhere correctly and figuring out where I am in the code.

My .02

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t-bone_two wrote:... But

t-bone_two wrote:

... But your completely missing my point here.

What they are saying is design the site for the user not the bot. That is a given.

Let me emphasize my point.

Quote:

... you should provide content designed for users, not search engines, making sure to treat search engine bots as just other users and never sending them different content.

I know you'll just say that the content is the same, just doubled.

t-bone_two wrote:

The site is designed for the user.

May I ask what screen readers will see? You don't really have to answer.

t-bone_two wrote:

And in essence the content served in the method I am speaking of is the core data the user is getting with NO style elements. All the content is there. Just without the markup maze

Then the mistake is in using a "markup maze" instead of semantic markup.

t-bone_two wrote:

All of which have absolutely nothing to do with the core textual content that the user sees at all other than styling it and making it look more visually appealing. And statistically, according to googlebot and crawlers java and tags and such actually trip up the process. Cause wrong information to be indexed etc. etc. etc.

Java? Does anyone really still use java elements on their pages in this day and age?

t-bone_two wrote:

The thing is that this type of tactic is open for a host of abuse because technically you can stuff it. But using it rationally and ethically . . . considering one proven fact is text is the lightest thing there is. I do not see how in any way this would do anything but make the page easier to crawl and the data easier to access.

I don't see any way that makes this rational or ethical. It breaks the rules that brought me to web standards in the first place and that is to treat every person viewing my sites the same.

I'm not trying to talk you out of doing this, if that were even possible. The back and forth may reveal something that I don't know. So please do reply. So far, I'm not convinced.

t-bone_two
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Lets Look at the Code

Straight out the gate let's look at the difference in the code with this VERY basic example: And keep in mind how simple this is. Think of some of the more complex pages you laid out. And the fact of the matter is that an outline like this on a complex page using the same number of id's and such is 100% possible.

CODE 1:

<html>
<head>
<title>Sample Page</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css">
</head>
<body>
<div id = "content">
	<h1>How to Grow the Biggest Tomatoes on Earth</h1>
	<h2>Home Store Seeds Practices Soil C02 Soil Aeration Pests</h2>
	<h2>Keywords: Tomatoes, farming, soil, aeration, other words, any words I want, anything additionally I want to add related to tomatoes.</h2>
	<h2>Getting Started</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.</h3> 
	<h2>Best Methods</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis.</h3> 
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Sample 2 (SAME CONTENT)

<html>
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<title>Sample Page</title>
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	<h1>How to Grow the Biggest Tomatoes on Earth</h1>
 
	<h2>Home Store Seeds Practices Soil C02 Soil Aeration Pests</h2>
	<h2>Keywords: Tomatoes, farming, soil, aeration, other words, any words I want, anything additionally I want to add related to tomatoes.</h2>
	<h2>Getting Started</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.</h3> 
	<h2>Best Methods</h2>
	<h3>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis. Lorem ipsu	m dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis.</h3> 
 
</div>
 
<div id = "master_container">
 
	<div id = "heading">How to Grow the Biggest Tomates on Earth<br>
		<div class = "sections">
			<ul>
				<li><a href = "">Home</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Store</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Seeds</a></li>
 
				<li><a href = "">Practice</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Soil</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">C02</a></li>
				<li><a href = "">Aeration</a></li>
			</ul>
		</div>
	</div>
 
 
	<div id = "getting_started"><br><br><br>
	<span class = "title">Geting Started</span><br>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.<br><br>
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	</div>
 
	<div id = "best_methods"><br><br><br>
	<span class = "title">Best Methods</span><br>
	Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer magna velit, fringilla faucibus venenatis nec, sodales a sem. Donec diam sem, rutrum nec aliquam non, accumsan eu felis. In sem augue, congue et rutrum ac, tincidunt in mauris. Mauris eu suscipit tellus. Donec quis magna at nisl elementum dictum. Suspendisse id euismod risus. Sed odio ante, vestibulum in iaculis vitae, porttitor vitae libero. Vivamus pretium luctus lectus at blandit. Praesent vel massa dignissim massa iaculis sollicitudin. Ut fringilla, sapien ut pellentesque pretium, tellus arcu convallis felis, vel placerat urna turpis ut mi.<br><br>
 
 
	Phasellus sed eros lorem, eget congue libero. Cras eget commodo elit. Suspendisse euismod neque quis turpis consectetur a imperdiet urna iaculis. Nullam quis nisi velit. Integer tincidunt lacinia cursus. In pellentesque fermentum lacus, ut commodo mauris vestibulum eget. Nam sed est ac elit ullamcorper venenatis. Fusce rhoncus gravida justo ornare pellentesque. Phasellus pellentesque venenatis ipsum, a sodales elit sodales sed. Curabitur tempor, mauris sit amet pulvinar porttitor, magna metus bibendum velit, sit amet fringilla nisl risus vel tellus. Etiam consequat turpis quis ante molestie vitae tempus lorem pretium. Nam faucibus odio congue lorem imperdiet hendrerit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Nulla elementum bibendum tellus non ultrices. Aliquam tristique facilisis ipsum. Proin orci erat, commodo eget laoreet consectetur, accumsan tincidunt enim. Fusce lacus sapien, rutrum ut pretium et, pharetra vel felis.
	</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Think on a larger scale here than something I threw together in a few minutes.

Amount of Code in comparison to content in sample 2.

<div id = "master_container">
<div id = "heading"><br>
<div class = "sections">
<ul>
<li><a href = "">Home</a></li>
<li><a href = "">Store</a></li>
<li><a href = "">Seeds</a></li>
<li><a href = "">Practice</a></li>
<li><a href = "">Soil</a></li>
<li><a href = "">C02</a></li>
<li><a href = "">Aeration</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<div id = "getting_started"><br><br><br>
<span class = "title"></span><br>
</div>
<div id = "best_methods"><br><br><br>
<span class = "title">
</span><br>
</div>
</div>

Can you honestly answer me about 3 questions:
1. With just straight text like this. How much of an additional load weight do you think were talking?
2. Do you really believe with the difference in how the content is partitioned that sample 2 would be easier to index than 1.
3. How will this change or alter what the user sees and how?

I mean . . . since it is absolutely positioned way out the the left. And you can find it if you have about 3 computer monitors to stretch out your browser over.

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t-bone_two wrote: Can you

t-bone_two wrote:

Can you honestly answer me about 3 questions:
1. With just straight text like this. How much of an additional load weight do you think were talking?

Of course it would depend on the page. When seconds count why waste any?

t-bone_two wrote:

2. Do you really believe with the difference in how the content is partitioned that sample 2 would be easier to index than 1.

I doubt it makes much, if any, difference. This is what has not been proven to me so far.

t-bone_two wrote:

3. How will this change or alter what the user sees and how?

Are we only talking about normally sighted users?

So far the downfalls (non-semantic use of tags, extra page weight, double content for certain users, possible google violation) outweigh the benefits (none).

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Why not figure some better

Why not figure some better way to do source ordering instead of doubling and hiding content? Now I could get behind something like that.

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Regarding Writing Correct HTML

Regarding Writing Correct HTML.

I do my very best to adhere to the strictest standards possible. I research different doc types and do as well as or better than the next guy. All my sites validate and I pay careful attention to the outline.

I removed all the text and reuploaded the sample I previously did and you are talking about 14kb of difference for the text of the entire site. One image misconfiguration can put more weight than that.

Google is getting more sophisticated all the time to accommodate design. But you don't write an eloquent HTML file and then print it out and hand it to your buddy and expect him to know he is looking at the next best site.

Good coders use less code to do more. That is a fact. And what you have read about java and googlebots in comparison to what I have read is not correct. And your belief that there are not java script tags in the heads of many many documents is also not correct. There are instances where those scripts will actually trip the bot.

NONE of these methods I am describing here are approved or were recommended to me by anyone who does SEO for a living. They are just things I have tried and have yielded results.

The design comes first for me also. But the second half of what I described is something I can do in minutes. Here recently I obtained a long document from a good SEO company that has turned my ideas on end. And there are very good reason SEO wise that wordpress and a few other CMS sites can obliterate everyone in terms of rankings and do so quickly.

I have heard on this site discouragement by people for using absolute positioning. It can be a nightmare if you don't know what your doing it. I quit doing it for some time. But I just read a major dossier about how it is vital to controlling the content served to the bot and the content served to the viewer. And it is necessary that they are different. And very necessary that you are able to use it effectively if your are in it for the long haul.

My .02.

Time will tell if this (As described in this thread) absolute positioned string of achaic html will be booted as black hat. But it is worth considering that if you include a segment of code written at a pre-school level a PHD browser sniffer could possibly rip it apart effectively and quickly . . . don't quote me on it. And it most deff could be bad practice.

Good talking! And if you know a way to where I can go and just shut off every last margin and default style associated with h1-6 tags please let me know.

Like

* h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 
{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
padding: 0 0 0 0;
}

I absolutely hate the fact that there is some sort of consensus that anyone wants to use the styles applied to those heading tags.

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t-bone_two wrote:... And

t-bone_two wrote:

... And what you have read about java and googlebots in comparison to what I have read is not correct. And your belief that there are not java script tags in the heads of many many documents is also not correct. ...

Java is not javascript. You just used the wrong terminology and that caused a divide in the conversation.

Could you provide more on how a <script> tag can trip up a crawlerbot?

Concerning your argument that your pages are valid, that may be but I'd have to say that valid does not equal semantic. Paragraphs belong in <p> tags not <h3> as in this technique.

t-bone_two wrote:

... But I just read a major dossier about how it is vital to controlling the content served to the bot and the content served to the viewer. And it is necessary that they are different. ...

How is it that google themselves say otherwise (as in the video I posted)?

Also, you still haven't addressed the consequence to the vision-impaired visitor to your site.

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Yes

Yes. I am referring to javascript. Not Java. Yes. I got the terminology wrong.

Googlebot can read and follow javascript.

Don't quote this as gospel. Because I know there is as much disinformation out there as there is good solid info.

The only source I can quote that I know as reputable which deals with SEO as a profitable basis cites javascript in the list that crawlers have trouble with . . . including other things such as inline styles, tables, hundreds of characters before text, huge styles and scripts in the head and much more.

There is some explanation why. But it is non detailed. And from what I gather from independent research is the java reading tech is somewhat young and can cause a bot to move to and begin indexing and gathering non relevant data. I really just don't know to tell you the truth.

In regard to your second question about a visually impared viewere. The use of absolute versus relative positioning does not have anything to do with the look of the finished and compiled file / An individuals ability to read the visual output they see coming from the code. But there is a positive correlation as to how far down a bot goes. Which does make a difference. So tt has to do with what order the code is placed between the body tags . . . Which can be done without interfering with what the viewer sees unless your tracking milliseconds.

Hope that provides some answer.

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Hi t-bone_two, A couple of

Hi t-bone_two,
A couple of years ago there were some layout methods around that provided what was called source ordered layouts. Might be worth having a quick search and seeing what comes up. What you are doing is not new.

Using absolute positioning is not a bad thing, as long as it is used wisely.
Don't eat too much candy or your teeth will fall out Crazy

If you are using a well structured layout with semantic use of tags google will not have any problems. Like the others have mentioned you may just cause problems with doubling up on content.
Google should index all the content on the page unless you are doing funky things to mess up what the bot reads.

If you have a google webmasters tools account you can get the page as google sees it. There are other tools around that provide more info on page structure, poodle predictor was a good one but seems to be off line now.

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t-bone_two wrote: ... what I

t-bone_two wrote:

... what I gather from independent research is the java reading tech ...

*cough* *cough* Ahem?

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t-bone_two wrote: ... The use

t-bone_two wrote:

... The use of absolute versus relative positioning does not have anything to do with the look of the finished and compiled file / An individuals ability to read the visual output they see coming from the code. ...

That's just it. Some users don't use "visual output". This is what I'm getting at.

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Any reply to what screen

Any reply to what screen readers will experience?

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If your Referring

If your referring to someone who uses firefox with the visual elements off. What they will see is a fairly straight forward and clean textual outline.

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Verschwindende wrote: Any

Verschwindende wrote:

Any reply to what screen readers will experience?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

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Deuce wrote:Verschwindende

Deuce wrote:
Verschwindende wrote:

Any reply to what screen readers will experience?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_reader

Thanks, Deuce. I made a bad assumption.

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But don't worry. Those with

But don't worry. Those with bad eyesight or blindness aren't real people and would most likely never buy any product online, ever. Because it's usually a lot easier for them to walk across town, you know, without being able to see and all, and just buy a product that someone next to them describes for them.

At least when that person at the store describes it to them, it won't be their computer reading them all of the content twice for no apparent reason.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

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Just saw this in the

Just saw this in the "Aggregated News" when I logged out and thought I would throw it in here for posterity...

Google's SEO Report Card

There ya go...straight from the horse's mouth. If you follow the links there's even a couple of PDF downloads.

Enjoy!

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile

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Wow, that is understandably a

Wow, that is understandably a controversial issue.

I'm not an SEO expert, but when I consulted with one, he suggested what I think is a milder version of what you're describing, no content off the page, or way up in the HEAD, or mysterious invisible sneaky code. Wink

He did suggest getting actual content code fairly high in the page. For example, many many pages have a sidebar menu on the left, and content in the middle. Most of the time, when I code that, I'll end up with menu HTML code above the content code, and I get the menu visually to the left by floating it. Very typical. But using absolute positioning you can have the content code actually be above the menu code, yet it looks the same as the other method.

(If you have the sidebar menu on the right, this is taken care of already)

I wonder if doing that type of technique may help your SEO a bit, yet not create any black hat penalties at all.

Dave

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Deuce wrote: But don't worry.

Deuce wrote:

But don't worry. Those with bad eyesight or blindness aren't real people and would most likely never buy any product online, ever. Because it's usually a lot easier for them to walk across town, you know, without being able to see and all, and just buy a product that someone next to them describes for them.

At least when that person at the store describes it to them, it won't be their computer reading them all of the content twice for no apparent reason.

So, someone got my point?

Deuce wrote:

But don't worry. Those with bad eyesight or blindness aren't real people and would most likely never buy any product online, ever. Because it's usually a lot easier for them to walk across town, you know, without being able to see and all, and just buy a product that someone next to them describes for them.

At least when that person at the store describes it to them, it won't be their computer reading them all of the content twice for no apparent reason.

So, someone got my point?

Tongue

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Passive aggressive, anyone?

Passive aggressive, anyone? Tongue

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

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gary.turner wrote:Passive

gary.turner wrote:

Passive aggressive, anyone? Tongue

Tongue Laughing out loud

I guess I just took for granted that screen readers were generally understood in the web community. I do like to use one once in a while which is why it aggravates me when a site is purposely designed to befuddle them. Apologies for all the cryptic responses.

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T_bone_two, Google tries

T_bone_two, Google tries really hard to read the content that people see and read. Its really easy to strip out tags, so I wouldn't worry about them - in fact the opposite is true, use them wisely. In trying to work out what are possible keywords for a page the content of headings is a better indicator than the more general content (e.g. li,p). And amongst the more general content, the stuff the comes first is likely to be more important that the stuff that comes later.

If your page is really about its content, there is no need to use any tricks to game google and other search engine bots.

The purpose of gaming the bot is to try and get a page categorised as one thing when its visible content is something else. E.g. To get your page categorised as about XBox360 when it is really trying to sell PS3.

If you want to learn techniques for how to game Google, don't ask us. We can tell you how to control the appearance of the content people see (hear or touch), as a rule we're not interested in content which has no appearance.

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I hear Ya!

I hear what your saying.

I got a lengthy SEO report that put a great deal of emphasis on the code structure in terms of it's order of importance. And it has opened a whole new ball of wax.

And also some new hoops to jump through.

I am not looking to game a bot at all per-say. I am just looking to consolidate all the text. place it in one container. Tag it once in terms of headings and put it directly under the body tag.

The consensus seems against it.

I appreciate your time!

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If you're not trying to game

If you're not trying to game google. Just review your content (with images, javascript & css turned off). Look at your headings and the early content text. It should be written like any good document.

heading - clearly points at what the page is about
intro - describe the page content as succinctly as possible
content (with sub-headings)
summary - reiterate what the page has discussed

Google will do the rest.

Just to be certain, write down the keywords you believe should be relevant to the page. Look at where they appear in the page. Compare that to what appears in the most important parts of the page (low heading numbers, early text content).

For me, a lot of "the tricks" SEO talks about is snake oil. The secrecy surrounding SE algorithms, means the tricks are unprovable. Strip away the tricks and rely on well written, well structured content. And for good ranking, make the page worthwhile so people will visit it and link to it.

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Check out

Check out http://www.widexl.com/seo/metatag-analyzer.html it will analyze your meta tags as well as your content and show you what your key word density is and if it matches up to what you suspect your keywords should be.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph