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jsabarese
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I'm working on a site overhaul which some of you may have seen me reference already.

It's coming along "okay" for the most part, at least as far as i can tell. I knew i would eventually encounter and have to solve the problem of replacing tables w/ CSS positioning (if i chose to do so, and i have because it shouldn't be that difficult).

I have a lot of other questions regarding problems that i'm having w/ the general layout, but i'd like to leave those for when i propose the "finished" site for your critique (putting finish in quotes cause i realize i'll have some things i need to change after i get some feedback from y'all).

Right now i just want to solve this photo gallery problem, and an unordered list-- which was previously NOT a list, but table cells and items. i've only really "finished" 3.5 pages, and i should really say 2 'cause one and a half of those are where i've encountered the obstacle which is the reason for this post.

i thought i had solved the problem-- i was very pleased. then i remembered that i hadn't yet checked it in IE, only FF. when i looked at my unordered list page, it still looked kind of right in IE, but unacceptable for presentation. Here's what the page is supposed to be:

It's 2 long bulleted lists of items which were previously residing in tables so as to be positioned as if they were flowing down the page side by side. this saved "valuable page real estate". the tables allowed for the presentation of this info in what appeared as two ordered columns side by side (they even used asterisks to simulate a bulleted list! you'll see it if you look at the original pages). my solution is to make 2 <ul>'s and <float: right> the second one. i managed to get it to look perfect in Firefox by using

.ulright {
	float: right;
	margin-left: 50%;
	margin-right: 2em;	
	margin-top: -25em;
}
for the right column list. mistakenly thinking i had solved the layout problem, i moved on to the next similar challenge which is a photo gallery which also was using tables to present a thumbnail on the left, and the respective gallery description to the right of that thumbnail. again, i solved the problem w/ the same approach as above, only applied slightly differently for aesthetic purposes, so it's not the same class i'm using. then, it occurred to me that i had better check these pages in IE.

i looked at the bulleted list first, and saw that IE is sort of doing what i want, but the floated right list is too "skinny", making it have about one word per line, and trailing much farther down the page than the left column list. okay-- minor problem, i should be able to tweak. but, wait-- if i tweak it for IE, then FF is going to look wrong. hmm. what to do? then, i looked at my gallery page, and i see that IE's interpretation is FAR from what i wanted-- the right columns (the corresponding descriptions of the thumbnails to ther left) are positioned "on-top" of the thumbnails instead of in a "column" to the right. They are supposed to appear as a right-column description of the left-column image, which it does work in Firefox, but not IE.
**NOTE: the style is only applied to THE SECOND thumbnail. i wanted to demonstrate both with and without the application of the float class. i could remove the float altogether on the gallery page, but why? i should be able to fix this, and the presentation will be the better for it! not to mention, the bulleted columns need fixing for the IE presentation. so i simply need to learn how to tackle this situation.

so, now, i'm at a standstill on those pages until i can figure out how to deal w/ the differences in IE and FF's interpretation of my applied style. in the meantime, i'm going to move on and fix up the rest of the less challenging pages w/out tables. i'm anxious to read a helpful response to this issue! fortunately, the classes styling the problem elements are unique to those elements-- so, any changes that i make will not affect the rest of the layout.

the problem pages are here:
http://www.clubrive.com/Rive2/corp.html
http://www.clubrive.com/Rive2/gallery.htm

the stylesheet is:
http://www.clubrive.com/Rive2/css/rive.css
the classes for these floats are about three-fourths down the stylesheet. (there are several items in that stylesheet which i need to weed-out cause they are no longer in use)

if you use the navigation on the left, the only other published "finished" pages are "index.htm" (for which there is no nav), and the bubbleroom nav button.

the "old" version of these pages can be viewed by simply removing the /rive2/ directory from the address, as the pages have the same names at the wwwroot.

btw, i realize my nav list (among many other things) needs work. please let's focus on the problem i've addressed above here. i'll post the "finished" site later, and provide commentary about my problem areas. thanks!

EDIT:
!#[email protected]%$&!!
now my right column is being pushed to the bottom in IE. it might have been there before-- must have been as i haven't changed anything! now i'm really frustrated w/ this! any suggestions on how to fix the rt column in IE?

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Need Help w/ Float replacing tables

Hi jsabarese,
I think you have the makings of a great blogger Smile

I have only briefly read your post as my egg timer is running out.
If you are having problems with floated columns one thing you must remember is that the widths of the columns must be less then the width of the container.
Always leave a little space.
If you use percentage widths make sure they come to less then 100%.
It is best to be weary of borders padding and margins on the columns.
Try to apply padding and margin to the children of the column instead of the column.

I hope that is helpful.
If I am completely barking up the wrong tree make a short, simple post explaining your problem and it will be easier for someone to comprehend.

jsabarese
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Need Help w/ Float replacing tables

Tony wrote:
Hi jsabarese,
I think you have the makings of a great blogger Smile

Tony,

Hey, thanks for the info! chalk up another few great rules of thumb!

as a side note, i'm not really sure what you mean by a great blogger (i know what a Blog is, of course!). care to elaborate at all? i never caught on to the whole blog revolution... not even sure how to use 'em for research. to be honest, i usually steer clear of 'em. ha! probably because everyone iss too verbose like myself!

--jeff

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I think it may have been a joke Jeff; never ask for a joke to be explained as in doing so one tends to start to act.......oops sorry starting to be too verbose Smile

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heehee. i gotcha, Hugo.

please disregard my inquiry, Tony.
Wink

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Actually on a more serious note you would probably make a very good blogger as they are all about content and the ability to string meaningful thoughts together that make for interesting reading, at the end of the day they are just a personal journal. As for research, well I would hazard a guess that you unknowingly visit many many blogs daily whilst hunting down coding related guides etc. Nearly all the best sources for technical info come via personal blogs, Eric Meyer being just one example.

I'm sure that you would find a blog an interesting diversion, if only from the point of view of an example of how php and html integrate so well and for the ability to get in and customize them while learning how the blogging engine works.

Wordpress is a good one to get started with, works out of the box, 5 minute install routine using default theme/template but is highly customizable due to it's PHP tags design; build your own structure for the core php functions to reside in and have hours of fun, you'll never get any work done though Smile

Hugo.

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jsabarese
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Hugo wrote:

Wordpress is a good one to get started with

are you saying that this is something i develop locally, and upload to one of my server hosts?

hey, i'm feeling like this might actually be something of interest to me, so bear w/ me, and be easy on me...
supposing i decided to fool around w/ this, do you have any advice, or recommendations based on what you know of my interest, and my "style" of commentary?

i want to share this w/ y'all (maybe i already said it, but i don't recall, and if so, i didn't really elaborate) cause i've come to feel as though you are in some way a bit of a genuine support network for me.

i was "let go" from my job yesterday. in other words, i got FIRED! it comes as no real surprise and i didn't get along very well w/ my manager. i got off to a really rocky start because i was using a Dell Optiplex P3 w/ 128MB ram, and expected to do huge Photoshop projects, which resulted in me staring at a status bar most of the day. i think they thought from the get-go that i was slow and and burdoning. since then, may mgr and i had at least one "blow-out" sit-down in which he described my apparent lack of "focus". please recall, however, that i am not a graphic designer, nor do i have an educated background in Marketing (my title there) and / or Advertising (my duties there, as it seemed). i was hired based on my entrepreneurial drive, and experience as a self-promoting musician, and event coordinator (all original music showcases), and involved as publicist for a major local live music venue www.crowbarlivemusic.com , not to mention my experience w/ server side scripting and affinity for tech integration and IT communications.

blah, blah. just wanted to throw that out. i guess because i wanted to let you know that what they cited was my lacking of skill in "graphic design", and that i wasn't going up the learning curve as fast as they had hoped. so, in a way, i'm asking for honest feedback on how you suggest i reflect upon this amicable departure. i don't feel like i should give up, because i honestly feel as i've learned a TON about it (working in InDesign all day, etc), and i know i've gotten much better at it. not to mention my obvious desire to be working in the environment which leads me to post so much in this very forum. so, hit me. let me know what y'all think. again, i need honesty, and support. anything you can think of that a man in my position should ponder or investigate, or whatever.

thanks so much for reading.

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Jeff sorry to hear your news, you have my sympathy; from what you recount they were the ones that were in error really, I wouldn't take it as a personal indictment of your abilities; it sounds as though they were non too clued up on what they wanted from the position and when it seemingly didn't pan out for them they took the easy option rather than attempt to make things work, dive straight back in, I doubt that it was your abilitys that were in question.

As for asking you to do intensive graphics work on a P3 128mb box they were just having a laugh. Win XP requires 128mb just to get the system up and running forget running any apps. That machine was working of the swap file, an impossible situation for serious work. I was trying to work on some large photos for print recently running with 250mb on another box and some of the filters were taking so long to render that I was actually going off and making cups of tea, needless to say I didn't pursue it for long before swapping to the main box.

Wordpress is a simple to get up and running just requiring you to down load the zip file from wordpress.org create a DB file with username and password create a directory on your server i.e blog (or you can just dump the files in root) upload and unzip your files to the chosen directory, then find the file wp-config-sample edit that file to reflect your DB file name and connection details save as wp-config.php then navigate to /blog/wp-admin/install.php and run the file which will set up the DB tables and provide you with a random username and password after that you just need to run index.php and log in using your admin password and username where you can start to write posts and configure your blog.

Of course the fun starts there as you will want to start to customize the CSS and then learn how the themes are designed and where the html is generated from so that you can design your own themes (just like designing any CSS/HTML layout really) except that it is heavily templated so you need to find your way around the various files that comprise the theme, nice thing is that with the new theme switcher you can work on your own themes without possibility of breaking the php engine as they are separate if you break your layout you can just go back into the admin interface and switch back to a default working theme.

You can of course develope locally on your localhost server, the blog can be running live with you just developing theme files/layouts on your local install mirror copy, when your happy then you upload the theme files, go on line and into admin panel to switch over to your new set of theme files

There are some issues revolving around the fact that the WP team are not perhaps the greatest HTML/CSS coders and the thing suffers at times from some odd decisions to hide away snippets of html in files that you would never think to look through but thats another story.

The support forum is lively and there is an excellent Wiki holding a load of useful how to and general configuration info.

Give it a go you've got some time on your hands now Smile as long as your server has MySQL and php it's a doddle and will keep you amused for hours and there is a lot more you can do with it than just run as a straight blog plus a very busy extension/plug ins community all discussed somewhere on wordpress.org.

Hugo.

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jsabarese
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cool. thanks for the feedback regarding the job. indeed, you have pegged it. i can't believe they let me struggle for 1.5 months before i was presented w/ a new pc. in all, it is a good thing really. now i can focus on my studies, and find something more fitting of the real me-- hopefully to land in a work environment filled with creative, open minded energy, as opposed to guys who wish the were cops! (have you ever seen their site?! speaking of which, i wonder if they'll remember that i have the FTP info! heehee. sometimes i can't believe i ever worked there, considering my last "job". ha!)

and regarding the wordpress thing-- i just may check it out. i wonder what i would "blog" about? i wonder-- would it have to have its own domain name? hmm... things i never really thought of as i never really thought of having my own blog.

indeed, i DO have some time on my hands!
Smile

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I use Wordpress for a site I set up for my local community association to get their news online and would thoroughly recommend it. Seems to me to be the best free blogging/CMS I've come across so far. I've been looking around for other free CMSs to integrate into client's sites (if I ever get them Wink ) in the future, but so far haven't found anything I've been happy with so will probably look to implement Wordpress instead.

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Tyssen,

i haven't gotten around to d/l yet, or even investigating further, but i am interested.

are you saying that it is a content management system, or that you could tweak it in some way to essentially turn it into a content management system?

although i'm aware of their existence, checked out many packages, both PHP and ASP.NET, but never went any further. i'm not sure that anything i've done so far would require such a system. possibly my project here, but that's a stretch. i have a difficult time thinking how i'd put one to use!

--js

EDIT:
okay, on my way there now to d/l and get a closer look

EDIT2:
i've been meaning to ask someone the next time i saw it...
what is a tarball, or .tar . gz ?
i understand it must be some type of file compression/ archiving technique... but, why so popular among the more "techie" sites?

EDIT3:
When i read the recommendation at Wordpress to go w/ a host which has "one-button" install, i decided to look at my new Linux account w/ my hosting provider (i've had windows server accounts there for years, but recently upgraded to a plan which includes "one free linux" hosting account)... it has a TON of cool features which i have yet to investigate-- much more so than what he has on his windows accounts. take a look at the attachment. maybe there's something there i could use already? anything look familiar? i know PHP nuke does!

EDIT4:
hey, wait! wordpress is there, but under blogs!

EDIT5:
wow. that was easy! now for, as hugo says, the FUN part! Wink
http://www.adesigninteractive.com/wordpress/
actually, to be honest, if you don't see a lot of activity there, or none at all, it's because i must set out on a deliberate hunt for new employment... $ making employment, that is! hopefully, i'll get that taken care of soon enough!!

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Ah you have Cpanel and Fantastico installed on your Apache vhost that makes things even simpler as you have clearly found.

You will also find that Apache is so much more configurable and usable than Windows server hosts.
One wonders if there is any point ever going with IIS.

So welcome to the world of blogging I was going to leave a reply but you have the comments set to registered users only.

While Fantastico is great for quick installs be wary of things that may mask the workings of things, myself I prefer to always do things the hard way,manually that way I get a better understanding of the configuration.

Your next task is to start understanding how the files are arranged
which means looking through the default theme files and looking at the way they are constructed to understand the various function calls and html generation (be warned, initially it is slightly confusing)

The important directories to pay attention to are your themes folders located in wp-content and the wp-includes folder where the core PHP function calls are kept.

It's worth reading through the WP wickie as there is some good stuff explaining the basic theme construction and various files that are used.

Oh and yes essentially a blog is just a CMS as what your doing is adding dynamic content on the fly to an existing site, you will gradually realise that WP is designed to be quite flexible in it use once you understand concepts such as the 'Loop' which can be extracted and added to say your root index page on your site as a last posts made sort of affair.

Hugo.

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i wasn't going to post here again 'cause the topic of this thread is so out of date, but concerning the WordPress blog issue...

the installation we talk about here... well, actually, Hugo does most of the talking about it. Wink , well, due to some server issues back when i first setup that Linux account (i've since upgraded, and the old account was essentially deleted) that old WordPress is gone by byes.

so, wishing to try the blog thing again, and having actually started viewing a few that are out there (realizing that many of the sites which i visit on a regular basis are in fact blogs!-- silly me-- welcome to 2003, right?). i just never really caught onto the blog thing before, and im certainly no "blogger". whatever, i probably already said that above. anyway... here's what's going on.

so, this time, i decided to try b2evolution. before i installed it, i looked around at a few blogs randomly, and thought that it seemed that most of the better looking ones, and maybe some of the "better" sites were in fact done w/ b2ev as opposed to WordPress-- i thought it seemed like too many of the wordpress blogs looked like that standard template w/ the Serif font at the top?

so, i ask you this: am i nuts for doing the b2ev blog? i'm thinking about trashing it and going back to WP. b2ev is like... can anything get more complicated than that to configure? what is up w/ that!? doing a little research, i see i'm not the only one who feels that way-- and what then, if any, is the advantage to b2ev? can someone show me a really nice WordPress blog so i can once and for all be convinced to go that route? thanks.

oh.. i mean, WP can do permalinks, right? and all of your typical blog features, right? is there anything that i'd be missing out on if i switch back to WP?

thanks for your feedback!

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Tyssen wrote:
I've been looking around for other free CMSs to integrate into client's sites

i think Mambo rocks. do you not like it for some reason?

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jsabarese wrote:
Tyssen wrote:
I've been looking around for other free CMSs to integrate into client's sites

i think Mambo rocks. do you not like it for some reason?

Its design isn't as standards-friendly as Wordpress. Wordpress makes a fairly big deal out of its 'full standards compliance'; Mambo (or Joomla) doesn't. Wordpress also has a few plug-ins designed towards making things standards compliant too. I haven't used Mambo, but the impression I got from my investigations were that WP was the better option.

Quote:
can someone show me a really nice WordPress blog so i can once and for all be convinced to go that route?

I dunno about 'really nice' but you can view my WP site here.

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a long one. :twisted:

T,

Thanks for sharing your link w/ me!
regarding Mambo vs Wordpress-- i wasn't making a comparison-- i was trying to suggest Mambo as a CMS. i have also had high recommendation of Drupal. i use mambo here at this site that a friend of mine and i are trying to do in our spare time. i went the CMS route for reasons perhaps which would be obvious. i find Mambo to do the job very nicely. admittedly, i haven't concerned myself w/ standards compliance at all on that site yet. it totally didn't even occur to me-- i guess cause it is just fluf put into a cookie cutter, basically. figured i'd worry about it once i actually got some stuff up there-- and then would start looking for where the mess is. as a web site administrator, i've never used a CMS before this (i was about to say never used a CMS "at all", but heck, so many sites are nothing but CMS's these days!), so i really have nothing to compare it to, but for what i know of a CMS, what they're supposed to do, etc, etc., and also knowing a bit of the background of Mambo, and that Lawsuit, etc., i dunno... just went w/ it. actually, i did try one other (remember, i have that Fantastico thing), but it SUKS compared to mambo. you know, i really shouldn't say that-- i'm sure it's a fine CMS really-- it just requires a lot of customization-- which might actually make it the better choice if i only had more time to make it nice. i just don't have time to try out any other CMS's either. i want to check out some other soon though. i'd like to try Drupal. i've heard good things in more than one place. -- so, in recommending Mambo, i meant not in place of WP, but for your clients, or whatever.

but, back to web standards and regarding Mambo and webstandards, WP, etc-- to adhere to the true integrity of why we concern ourselves w/ standards compliance-- that is, if we truly want our sites to be accessible, and we don't just talk the talk because it sounds like something cool to say or do-- or because it is a way to make the "job" of web design and development something which requires some bit of study (as opposed to some bit of software), then i think you're right for not going w/ Mambo. like i said, it totally didn't even occur to me at the time i was just trying to get something up other than default.htm w/ the "under construction" thing my server admin puts there. yikes! the site is starting to develop though-- so i probably won't turn back at this point, and i do Like mambo-- from the admin perspective.

well, now i have a blog. i'll try to ramble there more often. WordPress is SO MUCH MORE EASY than b2evolution, although there are a few cool things at b2ev that i'm missing, i'm sure i can figure out how to configure WP to just the same. if you want to see the b2ev thing i did-- i didn't get too far really-- i started goign w/ some lame concept... please disregard the content at both of those sites!! i'm just playing around, ya know. trying stuff out. (i curse at myself there, etc. you know the first few posts, or am i the only one who talks to himself in a blog? hehe) neither of the blogs i made represent any amount of css customization (well, a tiny bit on the WordPress one)