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marian
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Since we went over to Mambo, our website - www.bymnews.com - has been far too slow loading. I discovered the template we were using was much "heavier" than I'd been led to believe so I designed another and asked someone to tidy it up and code it. The first attempt was put on line, on our test site - www.bymnews.com/merge - last night and I was horrified to find that, despite a substantial reduction in the number of objects, it is even slower, but it's not surprising since CSS objects now total 185660 compared to 47748 previously.
I cannot see the reason for several of these quite big CSS images, which seem to duplicate each other when viewed in a browser, so I'm attaching a comparison of the CSS in the original and test sites, in the hope that someone can tell me what is wrong?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

Uruviel
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I know nothing, but I know it aint right

Your main problem is a slow server. But that can only change if you decide to change to another host which usually involves paying more.

Other then that both sites you provided are coded in a more or less redicular way. It alot of tables and both have <style> elements outside the head, which are oddly identical. I recommend moving them to an external style sheet.
Removing the unessacairy table elements would involve a complete rewrite of the client-side. Something most people are not willing to do.

Also both sites have alot of validation errors (most of them because of the <style> elements outside of the <head>

You also seem to have a server side error somewhere looking at the "cpm_viewLastAddedMedia(1,1); $objCpm->cpm_close(); ?>" in the right column of the site (below the calendar).
Most likely caused by php code inside a template or document, which mambo cms (as far as i can recall) does not allow.

You can start off by fixing the validation errors (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bymnews.com%2Fmerge%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=%28detect+automatically%29 ) and thus moving the style elements to an external stylesheet.
(Or removing them since they are included several times but are the same for some reason)

And consider moving to a different host and rewriting the entire client-side in a way that (x)html,css and behaviour(javascript, dhtml) are seperated.

On a site note: My experience with Mambo CMS were less then pleasant next to an obscure user interface I've experienced slowness with the system.

briski
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In addition your CSS could be a lot shorter by tidying it up and usilising more shorthand.

see

http://www.csscreator.com/css-forum/ftopic6672.html

for a list of things that can save space.

marian
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Have taken advice already

Did a tracert and discovered big hold up whilst server finds site and am moving to cwihosting (recommended by a friend) unless someone screams "don't use them!!" Will actually pay less for more.
Also intend to pass on the various validations I've got - via the URLS mentioned in various posts here - to the guy i'm paying to produce the new site.
Am still very puzzled as to how the new site has so many extra CSS images, that seem to be repeats of each other in terms of what you see in a browser? :?

roytheboy
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Re: Have taken advice already

marian wrote:
Am still very puzzled as to how the new site has so many extra CSS images, that seem to be repeats of each other in terms of what you see in a browser? :?

...what images? ...which browser? ...which version? ...which platform? Can you post a screenshot? Come on; help us to help you!

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

marian
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Re: Have taken advice already

roytheboy wrote:
marian wrote:
Am still very puzzled as to how the new site has so many extra CSS images, that seem to be repeats of each other in terms of what you see in a browser? :?

...what images? ...which browser? ...which version? ...which platform? Can you post a screenshot? Come on; help us to help you!

Looks like the attachment I tried to add to my first post didn't upload, it was a comparison of the CSS objects in the original version and the new one.
Essentially, having discovered Web Page Analyzer here, I ran to old and new Home Pages through it and discovered that the new one was much heavier. The reason was obvious, the following CSS objects:
1 21110 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/modname.jpg
1 21110 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/header_short.jpg
1 21029 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/tarrow.gif
3 21029 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/subhead_bg.png
1 21029 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/contrib.gif
1 20885 CSS IMG http://www.bymnews.com/merge/templates/jh_bym/images/line.gif

Please bear in mind that I'm a CSS dummy, but I just cannot see why those 8 objects are so big and produce the images they produce when I paste them into my browser.
I have IE6 & latest Firefox, which I mostly use.

briski
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I know nothing, but I know it aint right

It's possible that I am suffering from heat stroke but when trying to look at any of thouse images I just get a different page from your site, as in html page?!? :?

DeprecatedDiva
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I know nothing, but I know it aint right

Why are there HTML & XHTML templates embedded in the CSS?

DeprecatedDiva

marian
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briski wrote:
It's possible that I am suffering from heat stroke but when trying to look at any of thouse images I just get a different page from your site, as in html page?!? :?

You are actually getting the same page ie. the Home page, what I don't understand is why? What are those images doing, why are they there?

roytheboy
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briski wrote:
It's possible that I am suffering from heat stroke but when trying to look at any of thouse images I just get a different page from your site, as in html page?!? :?

That's probably because those objects don't exist and some kind of 404 server redirect rule (not a rewrite rule or the URL would change) is sending you to the home page as a default.

marian - as reported by your server (you should disable this feature for security reasons), the contents of your images directory are as follows:

Index of /merge/templates/jh_bym/images...
[IMG] ad.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] arrow.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] header.jpg 13-Jul-2005 12:41 11k
[IMG] indent1.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent2.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent3.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent4.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] mail.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] myarrow.gif 13-Jul-2005 17:51 1k
[IMG] search.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] seatec.gif 13-Jul-2005 17:30 3k

The fact that the browser is searching for and not finding the images in your CSS file will not exactly help with the speed issue! I suggest you check your CSS file through carefully for errors and as Briski suggests, you could probably half its size by using css shorthand, and then halve it again by removing unnecessary code.

BTW: am I correct in now assuming that you were not previously talking about seeing repeated images in the browser? Please clarify your problem.

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

marian
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DeprecatedDiva wrote:
Why are there HTML & XHTML templates embedded in the CSS?

I dont know, like I say I know absolutely nothing about CSS but it doesn't look right to me.

roytheboy
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marian wrote:
like I say I know absolutely nothing about CSS but it doesn't look right to me.

Now might be a good time to start reading a few CSS tutorials Wink (google 'css tutorial')

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

marian
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roytheboy wrote:
briski wrote:
It's possible that I am suffering from heat stroke but when trying to look at any of thouse images I just get a different page from your site, as in html page?!? :?

That's probably because those objects don't exist and some kind of 404 server redirect rule (not a rewrite rule or the URL would change) is sending you to the home page as a default.

marian - as reported by your server (you should disable this feature for security reasons), the contents of your images directory are as follows:

Index of /merge/templates/jh_bym/images...
[IMG] ad.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] arrow.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] header.jpg 13-Jul-2005 12:41 11k
[IMG] indent1.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent2.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent3.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] indent4.png 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] mail.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] myarrow.gif 13-Jul-2005 17:51 1k
[IMG] search.gif 13-Jul-2005 12:41 1k
[IMG] seatec.gif 13-Jul-2005 17:30 3k

The fact that the browser is searching for and not finding the images in your CSS file will not exactly help with the speed issue! I suggest you check your CSS file through carefully for errors and as Briski suggests, you could probably half its size by using css shorthand, and then halve it again by removing unnecessary code.

BTW: am I correct in now assuming that you were not previously talking about seeing repeated images in the browser? Please clarify your problem.
What I meant was that everytime I paste one of those CSS IAME URLS, which were listed by Web Page Analyzer, into my browser I get the Home Page. Clearly I need to tell the guy who is doing this for me to sort it, but I'm beginning to have doubsts as to whether he is capable.

marian
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roytheboy wrote:
marian wrote:
like I say I know absolutely nothing about CSS but it doesn't look right to me.

Now might be a good time to start reading a few CSS tutorials Wink (google 'css tutorial')

The problem is that I am already working 16 to 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. We run a daily news service that puts on anything between 40 and 120 stories every day and, on top of that, I'm trying to get the website speeded up.
With the best will in the world, I couldn't learn CSS, which is why I employed someone who claims to be an expert in scripting Mambo templates.

roytheboy
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marian wrote:
What I meant was that everytime I paste one of those CSS IAME URLS, which were listed by Web Page Analyzer, into my browser I get the Home Page.

Read my last but one post again.

marian wrote:
Clearly I need to tell the guy who is doing this for me to sort it, but I'm beginning to have doubsts as to whether he is capable.

That wouldn't be for me to say Wink

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

marian
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Thanks for your help

It enabled me to point out to the guy that I was aware of various "shortcomings" in his coding!
The result was an overnight e-mail saying "Marian,
Just letting you know that I received your email and will work on it tomorrow.
You jumped the gun a bit; there is still a lot of work for me to do including XML/CSS checking and adjustments."
I doubt if anything would have been checked and adjusted if I hadn't had your advice.
I'll now wait & see what happens.
Thanks a lot folks!

roytheboy
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marian - it is very difficult to comment on someone else's work that is in progress, especially when it is based around someone else's work again (Mambo). But if you want to check the technical validity of your designer's work then validate the XHTML and CSS using these links (the XHTML needs to be correct before the CSS can be validated):

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.bymnews.com/merge/

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css2&warning=2&uri=http%3A//www.bymnews.com/merge/

After that, just check the site out on as many different browsers and platforms as you can but don't expect too much from early browsers. Check Firefox, IE5.5 and IE6 on Windows, and Firefox and Safari on Mac OSX as a minimum 'pass' mark. If the site validates, looks good on these five key browsers, and if it loads quickly once you've sorted the hosting out, then your designer probably knows his stuff.

HTH Smile

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

marian
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Sorry to bother u again

I asked our host about the very slow download speed that someone mentioned and he have me the URLS of some other sites on the same server and they weren't slow, when I ran some tracert.org tests.
So I downloaded a script and tested with that.
You'll see the results in the attached jpeg:
The red bar is the download speed for our pjoto gallery, which is pretty big and the transfer rate is fine, which suggests the server isn't at fault.
The green bar is for bymnews.com, which might if made me think of CSS probs again, or maybe MySQL.
Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be?