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larmyia
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Hi, I have SO many problems with my site in IE/Mac that I don't even know where to start. everything seems kosher in Mac-Safari/Opera/FF but pearshaped big time in IE. no surprise I hear? no. there seem to be 6 major issues as stated below. any help in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. I'm lost. I've tried messing around with the code but tbh I'm just not getting anywhere fast. ](*,)

http://www.subtleasafish.com/saaf/index.html

1. the logo has disappeared from the top of the page.
2. the vertical border b/w menu and content extends beyond the footer (trying to sort this out in another post as got a similar problem with IE/PC)
3. the "philosophy" & "portfolio" content goes below the menu as if it's too big (though why it's suddenly bigger than the rest I don't know).
4. <h4> on "services" & "usability" is appearing larger than it should (same as <h3>)
5. on "services" when you move the mouse over the menu the text moves around for a while in the first paragraph (and then suddenly stops).
6. the arrows before <h4> don't appear on "services," "links" & "usability."

thanks in advance

larmyia

tripleshift
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

i'm sorry I don't have a mac to test your site on since it really is like how a website should be.

i hardly believe a standard example such as yours can give so many problems as you declare.

judging by your code I really have no clue to help you 'cause it looks neat and fine.

I'll be very curious to see a screenshot of these problems because it sounds really odd to me.

great job anyway

bye
tripleshift

...

I left my good sign in the other pants

antibland
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

tripleshift wrote:
i'm sorry I don't have a mac to test your site on since it really is like how a website should be....

Someone just reminded me of this mac testing site today: http://www.fundisom.com/g5/. It's a real lifesaver for those hard to reach browsers.

- Antibland

wolfcry911
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

tripleshift,
ask and ye shall receive:

larmyia
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

thanks for the screenshot wolfcry911.

tripleshift: tell me about it! it's driving me crazy. I've only ever had 1 or 2 probs before, and now I have a whole host and I've no idea why and no idea how to fix them.

added to that I'm not happy with the index page.

urgh! :roll:

larmyia

thepineapplehead
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

I like it - looks very professional.

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

tripleshift
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

larmyia wrote:
...

tripleshift: tell me about it! it's driving me crazy. I've only ever had 1 or 2 probs before, and now I have a whole host and I've no idea why and no idea how to fix them.

added to that I'm not happy with the index page.

urgh! :roll:

larmyia

i said it before, i'm totally clueless. Sad

your code looks perfect, no errors and is very very well written.
i really can't guess why is acting so strange on mac.

we need major experts here than I am (i'm not an expert Wink ).

bye
tripleshift

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I left my good sign in the other pants

cherryblossomtree
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something to consider..

ie mac is defunct, and will no longer be available in future macs. i t currently has a less than 1 percent market share - is it really worth the extra time and aggravation?

Anonymous
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Re: something to consider..

cherryblossomtree wrote:
ie mac is defunct, and will no longer be available in future macs. i t currently has a less than 1 percent market share - is it really worth the extra time and aggravation?
No. There is only one person left that uses IE/Mac and that's my dear mom. She hates change...even change for the better. Laughing out loud

larmyia
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

hrmm....I was thinking along the same lines, and I didn't understand why anyone would use IE/Mac. however, my fiance's work colleague is using OS9 and apparently she can't use the other better browsers on the OS. how true that is I dont' know.

so, do you guys really not worry about IE/Mac? frankly I don't need the hassel, but thought I'd better make it presentable......

tph: thanks. I really apprecaite that. self doubt is a real pain.

larmyia

wolfcry911
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

larmyia, this is just a shot in the dark - but what if you changed the wrapper's margin to:

margin: 0;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;

I'm pretty sure IE/Mac screws up the shorthand margin (although, the layout appears centered). Anyway, it may explain why there's no image in the header? The other thing to try is referring to the image absolutely instead of relatively. This has me stumped - it should be there.

tripleshift
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

larmyia wrote:
hrmm....I was thinking along the same lines, and I didn't understand why anyone would use IE/Mac. however, my fiance's work colleague is using OS9 and apparently she can't use the other better browsers on the OS. how true that is I dont' know.

so, do you guys really not worry about IE/Mac? frankly I don't need the hassel, but thought I'd better make it presentable......

even though i guess this specific case can be exception to the rule, let's all remember that saying 1% "can get lost" is wrong.
who remember when less more than 1% was all the rest?
how many times those who care for accessibility hated those who were (and sadly still are) saying "who cares for the rest!" ?
I think is very important and primary to care for "the rest".

when I said exception, i was thinking about the fact this case is truly puzzling.
the code is so neat that we really can't be blamed to give up for "that rest".
moreover we shall consider that the accessibility struggle for those who do web sites is to be complemented by the user upgrade to a newer standard compliant browser.

larmyia wrote:

tph: thanks. I really apprecaite that. self doubt is a real pain.

larmyia

tph is thepineapplehead?

bye
tripleshift

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I left my good sign in the other pants

firstreflex
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

wolfcry911 wrote:

margin: 0;
margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;

I'm pretty sure IE/Mac screws up the shorthand margin (although, the layout appears centered).

I'm pretty sure that is only when centering tables, ieMac is fine with the shorthand when centering other elements.

As to what is messing up the site - does this help:
http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/

Or maybe you should just hide the styles from ieMac, your site looks OK without css.

thepineapplehead
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

Yep - tph is me Laughing out loud Kind of obvious, when you think about it.

(Spooky coincidence - my friend Tim's initials are TPH - Timothy Peter Higginson Shock )

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larmyia
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

I appreciate what you're saying tripleshift, but doesn't there come a point where we have to say enough is enough? I know this has been discussed countless times before.....and I guess it all comes down to a matter of opinion.

firstreflex, will check out the site you mentioned. I guess I could hide the styles. will have to give this some consideration. and will try wolfcry911's suggestion too.

thanks all.

larmyia

Anonymous
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

I really am not willing to alienate even 1% and usually my sites work ok in IE/Mac but I just don't bother checking anymore. IE is the pits on any platform. I guess I am denying that it exists and I am hoping it will just go away. Smile

I am just going to start hiding all CSS from IE/Mac. It will still be readable it just won't look so nice. Smile

larmyia
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

Triumph wrote:
I am just going to start hiding all CSS from IE/Mac. It will still be readable it just won't look so nice. Smile

I'm begining to think this is the way forward. that's my attitude to Netscape 4 at any rate.

larmyia

Hugo
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

Have always used the @import method to hide Styles from NN4, tough if your using NN4 you shouldn't be, people who have the ken to install a different browser than IE have the ken to upgrade it. It has next to no CSS support therefore it gets unstyled html Smile the page functions, if they want it to look nice then it's a simple matter of upgrading.

This attitude should probably be applied to more obsolete browsers.

Hugo.

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Anonymous
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

Hugo wrote:
This attitude should probably be applied to more obsolete browsers.
Shall we all make a pact then? Smile

I, {state your name}, do hereby promise to hide my wonderful styling from IE/Mac and NN4 and any other browser deemed obsolete by the counsel. I will consider it a punishment to those that do not deserve my work.

Smile

roytheboy
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

As Hugo will testify, I have (with his expert help) managed to get two majority complex (WRT CSS layout) sites working on IE5.2 without too much hassle: one perfectly and the other with only one minor issue concerning floats without widths (which they should have anyway). If it's any help, I have found that problems often occur when you hack something for IE generally, that IE_Mac does not need (because it was actually a very good and relatively standards compliant browser in its day). As annoying as it sounds, you sometimes have to hack your IE hacks to re-set them for IE_Mac. And yes, there are still a lot of OS9 users out there that cannot install Safari or FireFox. As for whether or not you should care about them - I'll leave that argument running.

Edit: I've just looked again at some of my earlier code and can see that most of the IE_Mac issues were resolved by re-setting an object's width or height due to the different interpretation of the box model e.g.

#foo a.bar {
/* hack to hide 64px value from IE5.5 */
height: 90px;
height: /**/64px;
/* end of IE5.5 hack */
padding: 26px 0 0 0;
}

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

I testify Smile it's true that it's actually less hassle than at first assumed to get passable layouts in things like IE5.2 Mac and requires attention to the hacks that have been used and indeed this is one of the problems with hacks that they can inherently lead to further problems unless one is very careful in their application and that they are used to definitely fix a known problem rather than just cure a perceived symptom.

If one uses a hack but is unsure what that hack is actually curing then it has been used incorrectly, you'll not fully understand how it may interact with other browsers.

The OS9 argument is one to note, I wouldn't wish to alienate a bunch of people who had no upgrade route that wouldn't be fair.

But for those that wish to use NN4 then I'm with Triumph and do make a pact witnessed by my peers that I duly swear and affirm the following:

I Hugo will not let anyone using NN4 see my lovely CSS styling, your obsolete NN4, dead as a dodo, tough ti*ty. To IE5.2 I will do my best to let you have a passing representation of my beautiful efforts. So swear I, On this day. the 23rd of May in the year of our lord, 2005. Hugo.

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roytheboy
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multitude of problems in IE/Mac layout

Coding for NN4 - bu66er that for a game of soliders, I know when I'm beaten!

Life's a b*tch and then you die!