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ikkys
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hello,

im having this problem with float containers.
im new in css but i have been learning for quite sometime and still stuck at the same problem.

its basicly a 2 column layout with header and footer.
everything went fine until the footer part.
i tried making it to position: relative but it will inherit the BG-image from the previous DIV which has no connectivity to it whatsoever....so im kinda lost.......

i have no idea how relative positioning works really..... kekek....
but everything else is static, it shouldve work fine but
well, u guys might have a better conclusion for me...

thanks for ure time.

the example is here: http://ikkys.info/projectnotworking/dunno.htm

p/s: im using firefox 1.0

thanks
-ikky

LorraineIreland
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float problem, need solution

Hi ikkys

Your first problem is #rightbar. Type some text into it then you'll see the text shows (indented) beneath the #mainbar text. So the #rightbar is not where I think you expect it to be.

A design like this demands pixel perfect positioning if you are also going to set up divs corresponding to the top "boxes". One way of testing this is to have individually coloured divs on top of your background, then throw in a bit of text, suitably padded to make sure all fits. The #footer problem, if one still exists, may be easier to spot.

I'm not too sure why you've limited the height of the #contents to 50px, then the height of the nested #mainbar to 50 px. This could be the cause of your sample text bursting out of the div.

Incidentally, the page 'looks' good in IE - no gap, background going to just where you'd expect. That'll be Microsoft second guessing you then Wink . But FF and Opera are showing that a few things need to be fixed for standards compliance.

Love the graphics and colours - can't wait to see the site up and running.

Lorraine

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Positioning...

Before we begin, something about positioning: absolute and relative positioning only work "against" each other, meaning if you want to absolutely position any div, you ned to make the parent element of relative position so that the child can be absolutely positioned aainst it, otherwise it will position itself against the body (top left corner of the browser window or from the center if you defined the body as text-align: center;)

I will assume that the gap comes from the div tags, after all, a div always feeds an entire line. And the height seems to be that of one line of text (18 or 19px).

First of all, you don't need .clr; if you want to clear something, then clear it directly within that div, not with an extra div! second, you don't even need it at all because you don't have to float the mainbar; it is not even practical. Take away all floating and simply make the header div part of the content div; that way, the content div will fill the entire space behind the header and also the gap that is there. That gao makes for a natural padding, which can be fought with negative margins if so desired. But that takes care of the gap.

Next, your order of divs is a little unfortunate! Instead of putting the "rightbar" absolute div BETWEEN mainbar and footer, put it before the content or behind the footer. It is an absolute div, so it will go wherever you want it anyway. This keeps your main formatting (c)lean! That way the footer snaps neatly to the content!

Now part of the mainbar background sticks out under the footer, so we have to pull down the footer by making it a relative position and pushing t down fromt he top by 35px; the other option is to remake the gif image and paint the border white, not alpha.

Next item that presents itself now is the boxes you wanted to position absolute. Suddenly they go way down, because they push down from the parent relative or absolute position, in this case the footer which had to be pushed down.

So now you can position them absolutely from their parent, the footer.

Check my css code and the new html file (I changed as little as possible so that you can spot the changes easily):
css code:

/* CSS Document */
body {
text-align: center;
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
}

.clr {
clear: both;
}

#container {
	margin-left: auto;
	margin-right: auto;
	width: 720px;
	}

#header {
height: 411px;
background: #666 url(mambobaru.gif) no-repeat;
}

#contents {
background: url(bgback.gif) repeat-y;
text-align: left;
}

#mainbar {
width: 570px;
margin-left: 10px;
margin-top: 10px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
}

#rightbar {
float: left;
height: 50px;
margin-left: 19px;
margin-top: 5px;
width: 116px;
padding: 2px;
}

#footer {
position: relative;
top: 35px;
height: 161px;
background: url(footer720px.gif) no-repeat;
}

#newsflashbox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 219px;
	height: 322px;
	padding: 5px;
	left: 195px;
	top: 40px;
}

#membersbox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 194px;
	height: 166px;
	left: 433px;
	top: 206px;
}

#searchbox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 195px;
	height: 89px;
	left: 634px;
	top: 262px;
}

#pathwaybox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 643px;
	height: 25px;
	left: 184px;
	top: 380px;
}

#datebox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 211px;
	height: 10px;
	left: 634px;
	top: 240px;
}

#othermenubox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 663px;
	height: 40px;
	left: 165px;
	top: 591px;
}

#bannerbox {
	position: absolute;
	width: 697px;
	height: 69px;
	left: 150px;
	top: 499px;
}

and the html code:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/JavaScript">
<!--
function MM_reloadPage(init) {  //reloads the window if Nav4 resized
  if (init==true) with (navigator) {if ((appName=="Netscape")&&(parseInt(appVersion)==4)) {
    document.MM_pgW=innerWidth; document.MM_pgH=innerHeight; onresize=MM_reloadPage; }}
  else if (innerWidth!=document.MM_pgW || innerHeight!=document.MM_pgH) location.reload();
}
MM_reloadPage(true);
//-->
</script>
<link href="dunno.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
</head>

<body>
<div id="container">
	<div id="contents">
	<div id="header">
		<div id="newsflashbox">

		  <?php mosLoadModules ( 'top' ); ?>
		</div>
		<div id="membersbox">
		  <?php mosLoadModules ( 'user5' ); ?>
		</div>
		<div id="searchbox">
		  <?php mosLoadModules ( 'user1' ); ?>
		</div>
		<div id="pathwaybox">

		  <?php include $GLOBALS["mosConfig_absolute_path"] . "/pathway.php"; ?>
		</div>
		<div id="datebox"></div>
	</div>
	  <div id="mainbar">
<p>
	    <?php mosMainBody(); ?> This is test text to show that this #mainbar has a problem even with a hack of div=clear or the holly hack......</p>

<p>i set the footer to clear both, it will still generate this empty space in between the #mainbar and #footer</p>
<p>so, im out of ideas, tried those 2 ways of clearing that i know but i have a feeling that the problem is in the layout. so please help...thanks....</p>
</div>
	<div id="footer">
		<div id="othermenubox" align="center">
		  <?php mosLoadModules ( 'user6' ); ?>
</div>
		<div id="bannerbox"></div>
	</div>
		<div id="rightbar">
		  <?php mosLoadModules ( 'left' ); ?>
		</div>
	</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Hope that helps! Smile

- How many Sith does it take to screw in a light bulb?
- Only two a master, and an apprentice!

Mælstrøm
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To Conclude

To conclude, I agree with Lorraine's general answer... my answer was pointed at your special case, but I must say your code seems a little garbled, not tidy/clean... the ideal way to code the html is this:

<body>
  <div id="container">
    <ul id="nav"></ul>
    <div id="content">
      <div id="header"></div>
      Main text or mainbar div
      <div id="footer">
    </div>
  </div>
</body>

Last tips: floating is not needed in such a design. The float element is for "box in box" solutions, if you will... where the text should dloat around the "box"/image presented. In a div table design, you can center the content by making the body text-align: center; and then the content text-align: justify or left again so that text will be displayed normally.
No heights!! You don't have to give heights for the content or mainbar or anything unless it is a very specific box you want. Otherwise, the background image is supposed to reepeat until the text is done Wink

final statement: use shorthands!! Oddly enough, some browsers don't like background-image and background-color and all that.
See my ss version for details.

Again, I hope I could help! Greetings!

- How many Sith does it take to screw in a light bulb?
- Only two a master, and an apprentice!

ikkys
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float problem, need solution

hey ya....

all i can say is THANK YOU........................
hehe....

yup, the layout is working now.......but d #rightbar is nowhere to be seen. my original css was floating it on top of #contents but im not that clear on the solution u suggested...

Quote:
Next, your order of divs is a little unfortunate! Instead of putting the "rightbar" absolute div BETWEEN mainbar and footer, put it before the content or behind the footer. It is an absolute div, so it will go wherever you want it anyway. This keeps your main formatting (c)lean! That way the footer snaps neatly to the content!

well, this is actually a template for mambo cms. if im not mistaken, absolute positioning doesnt push down whatever comes next as its on its own.....

i want the #mainbar and the #rightbar to push down the #footer whichever expands first.....

so how do i go about this?

and uh....i knew my coding wasnt perfect.....thats why im here and thanks to you, now its all working good...... Smile -- still hanging on #rightbar tho.....hehe

and thanks for the relative positioning info. i think i got the big picture. so let me just summarize as to my comprehend...

let say theres a car on the road, if i glue another car behind it, if the first car moves, the other moves.......is that how it is? apart from the background sticking behind footer, i guess relative positioning makes watever div's after that stick to the parent as a child.......aint it this way?

well, im new to this css thingie.....i like tables but i want to flow along the standards b4 it b compulsory....

anyways, thanks again......

and loraine, maybe IE likes me......kekeke.....
i didnt even test it with IE yet.....
thanks both for your time.....
its been a great deal of time figuring out 'how to' by pixel perfect answers from u guys that changes things and as css grew, ure name wouldnt be left behind for sho.......!

u want icecream? hehe Smile

cheers,
-ikky

p/s: the new html u suggested, is there by any chance u could round up a basic css for it... hehehe.....i aint pushing it, just askin..... Tongue

Lorraine
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float problem, need solution

ikkys

I ain't being pushed, but since you're askin', I've mocked up your page using Maelstrom's css and html and my position-testing method.

In the css all I did was to add background-color to the major divs we are concerned about at this time. In the html I added some text saying "this is the * box". I am emailing (because the file would need too much compression to come within the size limit of this forum) a screenshot of the result in Firefox. It is almost identical in IE and Opera. The #rightbar is still there by the way - its background colour is red and it's peeping out under the footer. The narrow white box just above the yellow search box is indicating the position of the date box. The text saying "this is the date box" is at top, left of the page.

Maelstrom: let me know if you would like to see the screenshot, although I suspect you'll be able to mock it up yourself.

ikkys: I'm not going to give you a definitive solution - Maelstrom's post and this one should give you a very good start. Try some experimenting yourself and let me know how you get on.

Lorraine
ps. Never mind the ice-cream - mine's a pint (sorry 500ml) of gin and tonic. Laughing out loud

Lorraine
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float problem, need solution

Oops - can't attach that file via private message either :oops:
Here's my email address - get in touch if you want the screenshot.

[email protected]

Cheers.

Mælstrøm
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Oof

Now I know why you put those boxes inside the footer... okay, let me see there:

You can of course add them back in and give them the display: none; add-on, but they would still push down the footer although hidden. BUTTTTT *drums* you can add a position:absolute to the definition, which would position them way somewhere else on the page, but since they're hidden, no trouble. The footer should close nicely then.

Then, when you go over a link, let's say "News", nested in your html like this:

<a class="rightbar" href="#">News</a>

then you can use the following selector (by the way, you can either make a class or id selector of the a or select it by using sibling/child selectors):

a.rightbar:active {
display: block;
position: relative;
}

you have to add the right top and left attributes within the original selector of course, the one that hides it; once you click the link, the box should become visible and push down the footer as well. I haven't tried something like this before, so I am not positive... if that doesn't work, then you will have to come up with something other than pushing down the footer... or use javascript :roll:

Lorraine:
I don't know whether you guys over in England/Ireland have Hagendazs icecream, but it's the best!!!! Better still than the American Baskin & Robbins! And they have a flavor called "Bailey's" -- it does taste almost as if drinking Bailey's, sooo good. Best part though is... they also come in pints Wink

About the screenshot: sounds interesting... sent you a mail. Smile

- How many Sith does it take to screw in a light bulb?
- Only two a master, and an apprentice!

ikkys
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float problem, need solution

Mælstrøm, im totally lost over ure post............

seems like im far behind without knowledge whatsoever by the sound of what u guys are tellin me to do.............wwooofff!!!

hmm, ok let me uh, explain again....maybe u already know what im trying to achieve but just for the sake of gettin it right this time without loosing much effort.....hehe sorry if im troubling u guys by the way......

first off, as said, its a 2 column layout with header and footer. if i were to use tables, there would be a lot of slices from the header image with 5 slices bein my workarea..... all the other auto slices would be an <img tag> while these 5 slices would be a cell background image. these are what those absolute positioned layer are for....

the idea behind this is to create a layout that handles php tags without messing or breaking the total set width or height, unless stated. so i was basicly wanting a layout with 3 divs, header, content and footer.

the header would contain absolute positioned layers which dont expand as the php tags inside them generates data thats enough to fill maybe half of the div. i use absolute positioning because it was easy to drag n drop using dreamweaver and that its position would remain intact within the parent div. it would be better off gettin it to static boxes but this wont be much of a problem as none of the data in any of these boxes would expand......aight.........unless i need to break my image for individual divs, then would be messy........

the #contents is where im lost at since i started this layout. as it contains the most data and never a fixed height, i started using #mainbar to float:left ---- and the #rightbar to float:left with a little margin in between, inside a parent div #contents. that should position these divs on top of the repeating #contents bg-image that simulates a 2 column layout......... hehe......i dont wanna cut my images up, unless there's no other workarounds.....

so, as the #mainbar and #rightbar bein floated, instead of me clearing:both the #footer div, i made an empty div to clear:both inside the #contents below the #rightbar. this shouldve been the solution to expand those floated divs without goin overboard.

the #footer is nothing more than a static box with some absolute positioned layers with the same functions as the header. i made an extra clearing div inside the #footer before any other just in case the #contents div gets overboard...........

here is a tree level divs positioning i need:
#container
|----#header
|......|----#news
|......|----#members
|......|----#search
|......|----#pathway
|......|----#date
|-----------------#contents <this is the repeating bgimage>
|.......................|----#main <this needs to push footer if more data>
|.......................|----#right <same 4 this>
|-----------------------------------#footer
|.............................................|----#banner
|.............................................|----#othermenu

so, there u have it........its a simple layout...i dont know if u guys noticed but im startin to believe this wont work.....kekeke.......

well, u guys sure u dont want ice-cream? its a choclate mocha sprinkled wit choclatechips floating on an absolute vodka....
kekeke............

sorry to trouble yall..
thanks
-ikky

p/s: the layout Mælstrøm gave me was perfect. im just lost to the part where i insert my #rightbar......i just cant seem to figure this out. i tried putting it as suggested, doesnt work....tried nesting it inside #mainbar and expanded the overall width, it went hiding itself/wasnt visible.....and i have no idea wat to do...other than that, everything is still great............. Smile

ikkys
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browser/editor not the same result???????????

by the way,

i tried generating a 2 column plus header n footer layout using the csscreator layout maker...........

what i dont understand is, would coding css be better off by hand or by editor like dreamweaver?

i made the layout to my exact original size.....and the screen display for firefox and IE woks exactly the same size/positioning of boxes.............

i tried opening this layout with dreamweaver but the middle part of the layout is pushed out. the div for the rightbar contents was pushed n scaled smaller to the main content area...

but its just totally fine on screen........

im puzzled if editors like dreamweaver cant produce the exact of what that looks fine on the browser, but when its perfect on looks, the browser rendering sucks..........

why is it this way anyway? is dreamweaver 100% css coding / layout approved? or is it that css wasnt meant to be coded by editors alike.......

u guys should have a better explaination......

and uh, do u think its better for me to just adapt this generated layout? the main and menu area works fine by pushing the footer......all i got to do is change the bg-image on those corresponding divs..........they surely did the coding differently from what me so i guess since this is the result of "css creator themselves", this is the only way.........is it?

but to tell u the thruth, im beginning to feel css is not that easy after all, keke.. im not a quiter so i wont quit.........and i dont wanna complain how i cant do this or dat.....kekeke..........

aight.....enuff bragging....

cheers all....
-ikky

Hugo
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float problem, need solution

Re the question of software such as DW the problem with these sorts of programmes is that they attempt to give the impression that they are whats necessary for creating web pages and tend to draw in people
new to coding. WYSIWYG often has problems and tends to mangle code and produce misleading results I would never trust to a preview in this mode, the number of times that you here people say that it "looked fine in preview, but broke when I checked in a browser" is endless; I would only ever consider a check in a browser to be the valid rendition of a page after all this is the medium that is going to display your code, check in the browser first not the editor, it's simple enough to have a browser running and refresh to check your changes
The other worry that I have with programmes like DW is that they cause you to spend time getting comfortable with a proprietary interface when the time really would be better spent learning the discipline of hand coding , which after all is not that hard once you apply yourself and there is no better way of learning than to get down and dirty with the core of your code.
When you write a line of code yourself rather than click on something that inserts a pre-written snippet of code you will tend to learn and remember far more.

As for writing CSS it's a simple text based system all you really need is a text editor like 'Notepad open and linked to your page then any changes you make to the style sheet file are but a browser refresh away. I personally can't see how an editor can really produce CSS for you I can see that it can write basic style rules but working with CSS is far more than just writing basic spec rules you have to know how to deal with browser anomalies hacks, filters these are the sort of things that an editor isn't going to understand and you will find that you have to fall back on manual tweaking of any files it may produce, so far better that you start manually from scratch really .

At the end of the day I would always say that in terms of using editors it's better to stick to the sort that just extend the functionality of a text editor which color highlighting, syntax checking etc, rather than the big bloated programmes that confuse by giving there own names to certain positioning techniques ('Layers' ??) and that attempt to hold your hand too much ,slowing down your own understanding.

CSS easy ? well it was meant to be intuitive but sadly the browser manufacturers put paid to that notion and left us with a situation where we have to cope with hacking the code around to obtain compatible results, but the more you work with it the easier it becomes.

Hugo.

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float problem, need solution

Using the source as found at this time, do these things.

  1. Remove the <div class="clr"> and the related style rules. It could have worked, but Tony's hack is more elegant.
  2. Remove the height property from both columns.
  3. Put the clearing hack on #contents. It does work, but you had heights defined which modern browsers honor.
cheers,

gary

[edit]
Let me add to Hugo's sentiment. Dreamweaver and other wysiwyg editors produce really butt-ugly html and javascript that is just too ugly to live. Do use a plain old text editor and write your own code. Well, not too plain. Get one that has good working features like coding language modes to handle nesting indentions, auto comment delimiters, and colors, and like multiple search methods, including regexps, and like kill rings, and like multiple synchronized panels, and like … hey! I'm describing Emacs Smile. There are others (sorry Hugo, Notepad's a PoS), many are even free; just look around, Google is your friend.
[/edit] gt

[/]

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

ikkys
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float problem, need solution

whoa...... dat was some explaination.....

and i guess its true.......
these fancy things just slows the process of coding but i duno, the layout placement wasnt perfect....eventho

i used it for merely absolute positioning layers only...u just drag and drop.....most coding is still by hand though.....easy for some but wasnt perfect all around.....

well,
im gonna try what gary suggested now...
thanks yall......

cheers-

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float problem, need solution

kk5st wrote:
(sorry Hugo, Notepad's a PoS), many are even free; just look around, Google is your friend.


I know, it wasn't meant as a recommendation but as an example of the fact that all one needs is the simplest text editor... splutter, fume ,raging emoticon fury Oups Smile

HTML-kit seems to be a very nice little programme with support for quite a few languages, offline help for php via a copy of the php manual and others, color highlighting for different languages, indentations , extendable via plugins etc etc and all for free, good support forum as well .
Although I am using TsWebEditor at the moment, quirky and takes a little getting used to but quite versatile in a simple sort of way.

Hugo.

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ikkys
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float problem, need solution

hey...i found this top style pro....
well, its evaluation shareware but i think its great...
let me go see what more it has to offer....
----------
still tweaking the css creator generated layout...
id post when its done....hopefully..

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float problem, need solution

People rate it quite highly!

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float problem, need solution

Quote:
People rate it quite highly!

Count me among those.

I notice an increasing number of people on this forum are using Firefox (although not such a high percentage at the moment as earlier today when it reached aroung 48%). There is a very good FF Web Developer extension for hand-coders. Too many features to cover here but you can read about and download it from http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/

Quick download - if you have broadband don't blink or you'll miss it. On dial-up about 3 minutes. No installation problems, in my experience. Even has its own forum.

Lorraine

ikkys
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float problem, need solution

hey guys.......ok here's an update......
the footer issue solved!!!!!!!! kekeke.... im so happy i cant wait to be more than happy for this next problem b gone.....

here the thing......
absolute positioning for my header doesnt work. resizing the browser made my layout look like crap....

i moved on to using floats again.....but theres a problem...
check it here updated version for header only, the containing div in footer was positioned for firefox..... .
as im using top style pro for the positioning, it looks good on IE but was a bit left behind on firefox.....
any solutions?

aight.....still tryin....
cheers yall-

edit
it was a stupid IE bug after all, well, problem solved....
now its time to see it live.............

ikkys
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float problem, need solution

okkkkk..............doneeee.........

thanks to yall, everythings ok...ready to go...except for a few bugs still in the process to be kill..............

the site is at http://mambolicious.info
take a peek...........

i still need somebody to check out the seach, date box and pathway box below the newsflash, firefox doesnt display it as well IE does....

dats about it......
before wutever else, just like to say thank you yall whove been helpin me out on these css deficiency case......or rather my foolishness not being able to track its pre-development as it began......which i dont even know when.....ahaha.......
so uhm, anybody still want that icecream???? hehe.....

plz address me on the solution to that searchbox if ud come across it b4 i do.....thank again.....

-ikky
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the more i know is the more i dont-
and today, sadly im half empty.................erkh...