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Jesica
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Is there anyway to use an External Style sheet to add information like the Metadata from the "Header" of the page. That way, if I change things like the Keywords, it would change on all pages?

Or maybe there is some way to do this other than a style sheet?

(FYI, I am using FrontPage to create this site, but more as a crutch than a necessity. So, please, open my eyes. Thanks!)

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Jesica wrote:Is there anyway

Jesica wrote:

Is there anyway to use an External Style sheet to add information like the Metadata from the "Header" of the page. That way, if I change things like the Keywords, it would change on all pages?

No. That's not what CSS is for.

Quote:

Or maybe there is some way to do this other than a style sheet?

The proper way is to use a server side preprocessing language such as PHP, python, ASP, or a number of others including Apache server side includes.

Quote:

(FYI, I am using FrontPage to create this site, but more as a crutch than a necessity. So, please, open my eyes. Thanks!)

Don't use that program! It creates horrible out of date pages.
Instead learn how html and CSS work and create it with a simple text editor. Stay away from any of the "What you see is what you get" programs because they are based on a lie. On the web there is no single "what you get". And that's not going to change because the web was intentionally designed that way.

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I agree about the Wysiwigs,

I agree about the Wysiwigs, but I must point out: Your meta data is not supposed to be the same on all pages, it is meant to be a unique identifier of what the page is about.

Liam Bailey is director of Galloway Web Services, a Stranraer web design company, sister of SEO copywriting services company Write About Property.

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Quote:I agree about the

Quote:

I agree about the Wysiwigs, but I must point out: Your meta data is not supposed to be the same on all pages, it is meant to be a unique identifier of what the page is about.

That's why she wants to know a way to change it dynamically.

And yes, agreed with Ed, if you don't want to write them out by hand (as I do) then you want a server-side include, and this is not done in HTML or CSS, but in the back-end language of your choice.

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ahem, The asker asked about

ahem,

The asker asked about changing it dynamically so they only have to change it once to change all the pages, hence all pages them same meta data.

Liam Bailey is director of Galloway Web Services, a Stranraer web design company, sister of SEO copywriting services company Write About Property.

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Thanks

Thanks. That's about the answer I guessed I would get. I apprecaite all of your input.

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Quote:The asker asked about

Quote:

The asker asked about changing it dynamically so they only have to change it once to change all the pages, hence all pages them same meta data.

Hmmm, I didn't think of it that way, because at my job they do somehow do it dynamically while being different per page... there's somewhere where all the different chunks of the are sitting and depending on what someone picked from the search list, different things are plugged in... though yeah initially everything was written at least once by hand. I'm not sure why they bothered with keywords being pulled in dynamically when almost nobody looks at them.

But so if that was what Jesica meant, yes, at some point they need to be handwritten to be accurate per page.

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Quote:keywords being pulled

Quote:

keywords being pulled in dynamically when almost nobody looks at them.

If by 'nobody' you mean no one person then yes you'll likely be right, but keywords are not for people as such.

We will compile a list of keywords by one three methods, either client has the basic CMS functionality and can thus access certain page parameters one of which is the ability to add a list of keywords they would like, which we then store and output to the page, or we compile a list from the search terms that may have been used to generate the page or at the simplest level on each primary index page we hardcode a set of keywords and pass them as attributes of the general head include either way the meta keyword tag is always populated via a variable

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Do you do this for the Yahoo

Do you do this for the Yahoo search engine (the only ones I know of who even look at keywords are Yahoo and I think Ask)? Or so that the client can look at their keywords and be reminded what their page content should be about?

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It's essentially for search

It's essentially for search engines, the matter of whether that particular meta tag has any relevance nowadays seems not to figure :shrug: I'd drop them personally! but then I loath anything SEO Smile

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I hate the marketing stuff,

I hate the marketing stuff, but I don't mind writing a meta description or keeping my titles correct. But the marketing stuff, "stuff your keywords all over your copy" stuff, yuck. It's a known fact, you are required to be soulless to be in marketing (or you're being punished by Gawd). SEO = either marketing (ads), or simply Writing Good HTML.

Or, a cult where webmasters argue whether The Googles prefer goat's blood or sheep intestines for the sacrifice.

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If you truly care about SEO,

If you truly care about SEO, screw keywords, keep your site updated with fresh content.
Doesn't matter how good your keyword to content ratio is, stale content won't get you far in the marketing world.

all ยป http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

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Bah. If I wrote bloggities

Bah. If I wrote bloggities or news sites, sure. But I don't go to a company's web site to see "fresh content". I go there to find out about their postal info, their opening times, their products and prices. I do go to the supermarket for "fresh oranges" but that's about it.

I think why I hate SEO the most is, it's like microformats: targeted to blogs, and everyone acts like everything on the internets is a freakin blog. Screw blogs. Die blogs die.

You know, there are people who do nothing all day but "submit articles"? Wtf? You have that much important stuff to say, but you can't get a publisher like normal people? And then these people go onto forums and ask, how can I submit my article to 5 different directories without google saying it's duplicate content? Well duh, why does your article need to be listed 5 times? Does it cure cancer? No, it doesn't, so let it get listed once and be happy. And then go get a real job, instead of sitting on your butt at home "writing articles for submission" and trying to sacrifice enough goats to the googles to please the SEO gods. I swear if 99% of all these sites suddenly vanished, would anyone notice??

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Ah google google google how

Ah google google google how you have grown into an unruly disruptive teenager, I remember the day you were born and how we did ooh and ah and proclaim that the mesiah was amongst us, sadly that is all piffle now, worst thing to happen to the internet was Google :mad:

Stale content , absurd and ridiculous notion, I can't tell clients to keep rewriting content and nor should they need to or have to.

Online Marketing? cheap and tacky

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Client of what? SEO? And it

Client of what? SEO? And it sounds like you are grouping SEO with online marketing. SEO is the optimisation of your own site to get better positions in the search engines for chosen keywords and phrases. Online marketing is external methods used to increase the exposure of your site through other mediums.

You don't need to keep changing your content. As long as something on the page is changing, which is why it is a good idea to have previews running from your news section on all static content pages.

Liam Bailey is director of Galloway Web Services, a Stranraer web design company, sister of SEO copywriting services company Write About Property.

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Quote:which is why it is a

Quote:

which is why it is a good idea to have previews running from your news section on all static content pages.

and if there is no news? What if we're not Time magazine? Although true, most businesses who are public (have shareholders) have a running news section because they must publish quarterly and annual reports, and also have news such as which overpaid CEO they're kicking out this month with a golden parachute. But not everyone has news, and this is something I also tend to lump into blogs etc. If you've got one of those Drupal-y thingies running so clients (the peoples you built the website for, nothing more) can manage the content then they're surely adding new stuff whenever they need to anyway.

Quote:

SEO is the optimisation of your own site to get better positions in the search engines for chosen keywords and phrases.

I consider this something that should never happen, and I blame google for stilted goofy-sounding text. I don't have any high regard for a site who'd rather talk to a robot than to ME, supposedly the reason the site was built, the human visitor. I believe sites should be properly marked up, yes. I do not believe it stilted text so keywords end up in things like headers when they sound funny there just for the googles, which is why I'm always asking myself, what am I writing here and who am I writing it to? It had better be human, and humans should always win. I do have one freelance client who specifically wanted to rank better on Google, so I think about what caould be written to a search engine AND a human, but frankly, taking his old site out of framesets works better than any SEO bull.

Plus, seriously, if you have a web site that sells dog food, why should you have to think about placing your keywords to rig the game? Shouldn't your headers already have the words "dog" and "food" and dogfood brand names in them naturally?? I mean, how can you have a site with a real purpose and have it NOT have "keywords" in the content?

What most people call SEO is either the correct markup of HTML so that a googlebot can read it as well as someone using a screen reader which should be as good as anyone else, or SEM, the marketing. Since people lump the two together, I do as well. Marketing AND proper use of HTML tags. SEM is actually something different, yeah, but it seems to be a less-used term.

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You are very very old

You are very very old school. What, so SEO is writing text laden with keywords so it can only be read by the search engines. Pah. Maybe to some people it is. To me SEO is as I said, optimising your site to appear in better positions in the search engines. But my content is still written for humans not for robots, you can do both. Keyword density is what you are talking about and it holds no weight in SEO nowadays.

In my SEO blog I talk about how to write good content that will get you good positions in the search engines. http://seonowuknow.wordpress.com

Liam Bailey is director of Galloway Web Services, a Stranraer web design company, sister of SEO copywriting services company Write About Property.

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Liam when I rant it's best

Liam when I rant it's best not to take me too seriously, but then again I do consider SEO a bit of a dirty acronym essentially due to the fact that there are so many absolute cowboys conning those that think it's the be all and end all.

Any way is it so important for blog to be well placed in search engines, it's all become a wee bit...

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Quote:optimising your site

Quote:

optimising your site to appear in better positions in the search engines.

My moral and religious beliefs are that "better positions in the search engines" should be determined by the people searching and the engines themselves. I don't trust anyone who actively tries to "get higher" because then it's no longer what the page is about, but the tricks they used to show up more. Once that happens, it's no longer a benefit to me, the searcher.

Heck, last week I was looking to steal some images from a clothing brand called Hound, based in Denmark. Since I know it's sold in the Netherlands I tried google.nl. Nothing. I tried google.us just in case, nothing. I didn't try google.dk though I should have... I thought, "hound clothing brand kids" and "hound kinderkleding merk" would bring up something... I detested all those BUY HOUNDS HOUND BASSET BUY CHEAP HOUND crap that filled up my search (the actual site I was looking for isn't googlable because the retards who wrote it did it, like all clothing sites, completely in JS and Flash... so yeah they deserved not to show up anyway). Everyone with the keyword of "hound" was busy trying to get in my face, and all they did was make me realise that I would not find what I was looking for via Google. Which is why Google itself does not want people "trying to get better positions", because if everyone could do that, Google would break. Why would anyone use a search engine if it can't find what people really want to find, instead of crap with similar words? enLarG Yor Pin3s! Arg! I sure don't want blogs showing up in most searches-- if I'm looking for information about something, the last or second to last thing I'm looking for is some blogger's (Joe in the garage) opinion about that topic. First I want the facts.
I got the url from my boss.

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I'm gonna give that a

I'm gonna give that a meritorious logo giffy thingy

However it's a wee bit naughty of me as we have dragged the original thread off topic Smile

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Lawlz, after typing that I

Lawlz, after typing that I decided to try another tack... my google fu is notoriously teh Suck, and if you add the word "Heart" to the search the site appears (though who would think to add that word??? It's not on the site anywhere!). Also, OUR site appears on the first page as well, simply because we have 1 line stating that we've added that brand to our listings. Sad (for them).

Liam, I wanted to also say that I DO agree that it's a Good Thing to properly mark up your , , etc and that you can "get lower in the ratings" by not writing your HTML correctly or putting the most important information in the wrong place, so I agree that whoever is writing a website needs to know the basics of search engines simply to make sure that they don't screw it up. However the only part of that which I believe affects SE's more than humans is the meta description tag. Nobody sees that unless the googles use it as their short text. But I make sure is well written cause it's the thing you see on your tab and is the first thing JAWS announces, etc.

After that, though, I think a site should just be sent out into the wild, with nothing but a loincloth and a small knife, and left to fend for itself. I believe if search is fair and correct, it will find its rightful place in the Jungle.

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All I said was what SEO is

All I said was what SEO is Regardless of what your beliefs or mine are, SEO is optimising your site to get better positions in the search engines.

Case In Point:

A company that sells overseas property optimises its site to get good positions in Google for overseas property.

The people searching the term Overseas property, who want to buy overseas property are very happy when the find this site in Google and can buy overseas property.

The people searching for impartial overseas property information, may be miffed that all these sites selling it are in the best positions. But does that make them wrong?

Anyway, I am with you, it is my belief that the search engines are aiming to make the most relevant sites get the best positions. And my version of SEO is to make your site the most relevant source of information on the topic relating to your keywords.

See: http://seonowuknow.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/seo-be-the-most-relevant-to-be-number-1/

Like I said it is an old school viewpoint that SEO means gaming the system.

Liam Bailey is director of Galloway Web Services, a Stranraer web design company, sister of SEO copywriting services company Write About Property.

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Original Thread Topic

As the writer of the original thread topic, I actually find this discussion very intriguing and helpful.

You are right about the meta data, it's very much about appeasing the client right now. It's also a good reminder for me that I need to be sure I am including all the information they are telling me is important. I guess asking clients about the meta tags they want makes them feel better (they have all heard it helps, why bother to dissuade), and is also one more way to be sure they are being clear as to what they want. (What? A client being clear as to what they want????)

By the way, I have downloaded a trial of Expression Web. I am impressed as a great "compromise" to being able to do "drag and drop design"- I am a graphic designer, not a programmer, after all- but still allowing me more control of programming and using style sheets. The only thing (so far) that bugs me is the use of Span tags, especially when it comes to inline formating font styles or something I will probably not repeat. I assume probably get used to them.

Anyway, the reason I bring it up, is because it also creates "dynamic web templates", which does allow me to change things like the meta data across the board (while still being able to customize each page as well). So thanks to the person who suggested those, cause I never would have thought of that.

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Quote:By the way, I have

Quote:

By the way, I have downloaded a trial of Expression Web. I am impressed as a great "compromise" to being able to do "drag and drop design"- I am a graphic designer, not a programmer,

Don't take this the wrong way Smile but this really is not the kind of forum where you ought to be saying things like this. To most of there is simply no such thing as 'drag & drop' design and the mere mention of that type of approach to web development will throw those of us that hand code and attempt to adhere strictly to Standards into major paroxysms of fury Smile

Being a graphic designer is not a reason to search for an easy path to web development, if you are not prepared to learn a separate discipline fully then stick to what you know and specialise in; leave web development or the coding of sites to those that specialise in that area.

Web developers are also not necessarily 'programmers' this is a word that is being increasingly misused, backend developers are not programmers they use a scripting language requiring an interpreter to parse the script.

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Both graphic designers and

Both graphic designers and programmers tend to write pretty bad (front-end) code, compared to those who fully learned front-end development, unless they started out writing front-end code first.

But Jesica you can learn the front-end coding, without the wysiwyg editor. It's very doable. You don't even need a programmer mindset-- programmers seem to often have problems with CSS because it doesn't make sense to them and complain loudly that CSS was "obviously built by desginers" while designers complain that it was written by programmers : )

I was originally hired at my job to make banners in GIMP and design the look of one website (which to this very day still isn't built, lawlz). I ended up writing markup and styling it. No prior computer experience except playing with Unix and Linux a bit when I was younger.