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vin2785
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First off, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section, I was sure where to put it.

ok, my question...

Do you think it is it a necessity these days for web designers to learn web development programming such as PHP, ASP, Javascript, etc?

The last place I worked at I was in a team that consisted of both designers and programmers so I didn't really have to delve too deep with programming. Now however I'm looking for new work but there seems a lot of requirements for knowledge on programming languages, in particular PHP.

My knowledge on PHP is quite basic, this is all I can say to agencies phoning up offering me contracts and therefore making it difficult to find something suitable. I've only been in the commercial field for less than a year since I finished university and unfortunately we weren't taught as much PHP as we were taught CSS, and even then I couldn't get to grips with CSS until a few months after I finished and started looking at it without guidance. Thus PHP or any other programming language seems a few extra levels above me. ( I think I just rambled some gibberish there, I apologise ).

Those who were first designers and now are skilled programmers too how did you approach programming? Is there any resources you can suggest to those looking to take the same path?

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liam.smart
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If you work as freelancer

If you work as freelancer you would really need to good at a server-side langaugae such as PHP or ASP. I cant see anyone making a good living on their own when all they can offer is a flat multi-page website.

Being able to work with databases, shopping carts, CMS's is a great advatage.

Client-side scripting such as JavaScript isnt really a neccesity but since learning it, I couldnt live without it. JavaScript is definately the easiest to learn with frameworks like jQeury and MooTools (my choice) freely available. Everyone seems to like a bit of movement or animation nowadays so learning some ActionScript would also be usefull.

Since working for a larger company, I havent done any server-side for nearly a year now so I depends on your situation I suppose.

Im starting to ramble on a bit now as well Tongue

Many thanks,
Liam
www.liamsmart.co.uk

vin2785
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hmm, well I don't plan to

hmm, well I don't plan to become a freelancer until I've gained sufficient commercial experience working in a team environment. At the moment I'm still quite new to the scene, there are still things on CSS I still don't know but I'm more than capable of designing a site with it without having to look at any references. When it comes to PHP though all I can really do without any reference is the opening and closing tags and basic programming like include/require another file into the document lol..

I've got a desire to learn it but every time I try it goes straight over my head and I begin to wonder whether it's for me or not..

Hugo
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Define what a 'web designer'

Define what a 'web designer' is? personally I hate that term there are graphic designers and there are web developers, web developers encompass a few disciplines, mainly they are skilled in a given area such as backend server side languages, or frontend/ CSS, it always best that people apply themselves to a specific skill and learn that well, however it is the case that we all generally have strong abilities in many disciplines; imo if you ply your services as a frontend coder you must be strong in CSS-P and (X)HTML and should be proficient in javaScript as these three skills comprise the three layers that comprise a rendered web page. Sadly many companies still cheekily attempt to find these mythical creatures that do everything, often though they are just chancing their arms .

At the end of the day we all pick up skills from constant study and application, you will need a strong working knowledge of a server side programming language as well as frontend skills, if you haven't got these ensure that you have a plan of study to get up to speed on the basics and be honest about your present skill sets yet demonstrate your enthusiasm for learning and your current endeavours towards that end.

I'm currently working on a project that uses ColdFusion as it's backend language, this was new to me but easy enough to pick up the basics, I ensure I put in a few extra hours here and there to better understand it.

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Triumph (not verified)
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The only answer I can come

The only answer I can come up with is "maybe".

If you are a great graphics designer but don't understand programming then team up with a programmer to handle that part of the business. Most graphics designers I've come across don't understand normal document flow in regards to the web.

Graphic design is not my strong point but I can easily take a PSD and translate it to a semantically marked up template for a site. There is room for both disciplines and they can compliment each other. The biggest problem I see is when one person tries to do both when he/she clearly has no business doing one or the other or worse yet, both.

liam.smart
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Hugo wrote:Sadly many

Hugo wrote:

Sadly many companies still cheekily attempt to find these mythical creatures that do everything, often though they are just chancing their arms.

Well said! Every job up here for a 'web designer' rattles a big long list of requirements...

I seen a cracker not long ago for Aberdeen area. Everything from HTML to ActionScript to video editing... Salary £18k :shrug: Total joke!

Its so hard to make a decent living with so many claiming to offer websites for next to nothing. Career move looks to be in the pipelines :curse:

Many thanks,
Liam
www.liamsmart.co.uk

vin2785
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some interesting

some interesting replies...

Liam that's true. I've seen a few vacancies that ask for a great knowledge of php, mysql, css, xhtml, javascipt and more and offering no more than 15k. I mean that's just the starting salary for most graduates, who are probably only disciplined in a few of those areas. I sometimes wonder if these companies even know what they're asking for

Hugo
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Most of the time they really

Most of the time they really don't!

They also always ask for a number of years experience yet are only prepared to pay a junior salary, if at all possible ignore these types of ads, if taking one then take it for the experience and move on sharpish, these types of companies seldom understand how to value staff and keep them, but it will get better the more years under your belt that you have.

One has to bear in mind that to some extent web development as a profession is still pretty much in it's infancy, and as such working in it can be a pain on many levels, on the flip side learn pure networking in detail and you will land a far better position, become a qualified Cisco engineer and you'll earn more than a web developer, or for that matter learn a real programming language (server side languages are scripting regardless of how people refer to them)

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Triumph (not verified)
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vin2785 wrote:... I

vin2785 wrote:

... I sometimes wonder if these companies even know what they're asking for

I can answer that for you. No. Tongue

Hugo wrote:

... (server side languages are scripting regardless of how people refer to them)

Ahem? .NET? Wink

Hugo
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Now go wash your mouth out,

Now go wash your mouth out, you know full well we benignly tolerate your mention of this 'thing' but please keep it to a minimum, and are you saying that this is a programming language? :ohdear:

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Triumph (not verified)
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Hugo wrote:... and are you

Hugo wrote:

... and are you saying that this is a programming language? :ohdear:

No, no, no but C# and VB.NET are programming languages. Smile

Hugo
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I am very pleased for them

I am very pleased for them Smile

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