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burlster
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Hello people,

My other half has a media background but no experience with web design. However, she's going for jobs now that frequently request a basic understand of HTML and she has turned to me to help her with that.

Now my CSS isn't expert level yet, but I'm happy with my skill level for now, and I can write semantic valid HTML to go with it.

What I was hoping for, is that some of you might have experience with the task I have ahead and consequently might have ideas how to go about it? She can use a computer just fine, but hasn't dealt with 'code' before which to her is all very scary. However, she is motivated to learn and that's what is important right?

So here's what I intended. I thought the first step would be to teach her to write a very basic, very semantic HTML page with no frills. Explain the basic concepts such as importing images and writing hyperlinks...

Then explain the DOCTYPE... and then go on to explain basic CSS (by which point I hope she'll have a small mini-site to see the changes happen site wide).

Any advice/opinions/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all,

John

P.S. About 6 months ago I would have just taught her HTML but I figure she's a clean slate on which I can explain web design the way it ought to be... for the most part Wink

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burlster wrote:... I thought

burlster wrote:
... I thought the first step would be to teach her to write a very basic, very semantic HTML page with no frills. Explain the basic concepts such as importing images and writing hyperlinks...

Then explain the DOCTYPE...

Do you really want to do the first step without the second. Tongue

Check this:
http://www.htmldog.com/

burlster
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Intriguing

Hmmm, I was imagining from a novice point of view, the DOCTYPE to be quite an intimidating thing... and if she can write a hyperlink and import an image, that might provide enough confidence to prepare her for the concept of someone out their judging her code to be compliant, haha!!

So you think I should do it the other way around? You're probably right... hmmmm...

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meeee
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learning from books

I'll give her a copy of 'build your own web site the right way using html and css' by ian lloyd which explains everything step by step simply for novices with a code archive so she doesn't have to type everything in by hand which is tedious; all you have to do is pay the postage from france contact me via my web site http://ornamentation.fr

life's to short for pig headed following the rules;
life's too long to if you miss the point!

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burlster wrote:... So you

burlster wrote:
... So you think I should do it the other way around? ...

No, I don't think you should do it at all. Nothing strains a relationship better than trying to teach a loved one. Wink

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Optimist

Thank you meeee... I shall consider the book option and definitely make it my back up plan if a) I can't teach as well as I'm hoping I can or b) Triumph is right!

Triumph, you're probably right and I'm letting myself in for trouble. So you don't think there's any chance she'll be thinking "Wow, he really knows his stuff..." before getting worked up and thanking me in very generous ways Wink ?

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Personally, I have used the

Personally, I have used the htmldog lessons for 13 year olds up to 80 year olds, all beginners.

Point her to it, then leave the room.

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2 minds

I'm pretty sure when I was first learning I used that site quite a lot too.

See the truth is I actually really enjoy teaching. I use a lot of analogies to visually explain concepts and have a lot of patience... I just know that I've learnt things very staggeredly (new word) and wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing in the right order.

But your making me think twice now Wink. The punishment for turning round and denying my teaching skills would inevitably less then the punishment if she felt patronised, and I don't want to be the one to put her off learning.

Oh dear Tongue

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Point her to the htmldog

Point her to the htmldog tutorials. If she has questions, you can polish up the analogies and whip out the 8×10 glossy color photographs with the circles and arrows[1].

cheers,

gary

[1] With apologies to Arlo Guthrie

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

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Hmmmm

Your going to have to forgive me but I might need your [1] explained to me if you wouldn't mind? I mean, I know who Guthrie is, I'm just not sure I get the link.

Thank you, and sorry to go on (I'll be writing songs that last 20 minutes each next)!

Smile

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From the song, and later,

From the song, and later, the movie, "Alice's Restaurant"; the police chief brings out the 8×10 glossy …, only to realize the judge couldn't see. It was a clear case of blind justice.

cheers,

gary

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burlster wrote:Your going to

burlster wrote:
Your going to have to forgive me but I might need your [1] explained to me if you wouldn't mind?

And I didn't believe the education system was failing until now...what are they teaching kids these days?

"If ya wanna end war and stuff, ya gotta sing loud."

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Web design!

Truth is, I wouldn't have known who 'Arlo Guthrie' was if it hadn't been for my best mate, Mr. Wikipedia!

Right, ok... well it worked. I have split the lesson in to two. I showed her extremely basic valid HTML strict and gave her enough skills to create a web page. She knows how to write paragraph text, headers, hyperlinks, unordered lists and insert images. She knows the importance of alt tags in images, and why the Doctype is at the top. She even knows how to use the HTML validator.

I used a new design of my website as an example and stripped out the CSS elements by deleting the style sheets and removing the divs. Today she is creating a very basic site with no styling on a topic of her choice. When she has this site in a folder, it will then be my intention to teach her basic CSS styling. Not to overload her, I will leave CSS layouts until the end lesson.

By the end of it all, I should hope to have given her a little practical knowledge in the world of professional web design Smile

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Ed Seedhouse wrote:And I

Ed Seedhouse wrote:
And I didn't believe the education system was failing until now...what are they teaching kids these days?

In the UK, we teach them what the government tells us to. Web design is not on the curriculum. My boss says do it, but use the most godawful software you have ever seen (Serif WebPlus).

My 13/14 year olds are doing it by hand anyway, in WebEditor using the HTMLDog tuts (all free you see). One of the most 'challenged' of the boys in the cohort is steaming ahead. Quote, 'This is the first thing in any (of the many he's been in) school I've enjoyed doing sir.' My boss was gobsmacked. Not that he did so well (he was disbelieving on that) but that the little *** was so polite, respectful and hadn't threatened to punch my lights out (as he did in my first lesson with him a year and a half ago). He weighs at best 70 lbs, I'm over 200 lbs!

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ClevaTreva wrote:Ed

ClevaTreva wrote:
Ed Seedhouse wrote:
And I didn't believe the education system was failing until now...what are they teaching kids these days?

In the UK, we teach them what the government tells us to. Web design is not on the curriculum.

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as "Alice's Restraunt Masacree" not being on the English or Music curriculum. I mean one must know the classics, surely! :ohdear:

Next you'll be telling me they don't cover "The Hobbit" in second grade!

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Web Learnin

I can do the Hobbit. Studied To Kill a Mockingbird, Wuthering Heights and Catcher in the Rye so I have a general knowledge of some classics courtesy of school. Alas, Alice's Restaurant is something I've only heard of this week.

And ClevaTrevor... It's funny that! Charley (my other half) says she loves it because she feels like she's writing code, something she associates (courtesy of films) with having to be a genious to do. But the big difference between that, and a small unit in C++ she did years back and hated, is that with HTML you get instant results. I mean you just click 'refresh' on your browser for instant results and that makes it so rewarding.

She said she was taught to create a basic web page in school... in Microsoft Word, haha!!!

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Ed Seedhouse

Ed Seedhouse wrote:
ClevaTreva wrote:
Ed Seedhouse wrote:
And I didn't believe the education system was failing until now...what are they teaching kids these days?

In the UK, we teach them what the government tells us to. Web design is not on the curriculum.

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as "Alice's Restraunt Masacree" not being on the English or Music curriculum. I mean one must know the classics, surely! :ohdear:

Next you'll be telling me they don't cover "The Hobbit" in second grade!


Ed, a lot of these guys don't remember the 60s or 70s like we do. Wink

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Triumph wrote:Ed Seedhouse

Triumph wrote:
Ed Seedhouse wrote:
ClevaTreva wrote:
Ed Seedhouse wrote:
And I didn't believe the education system was failing until now...what are they teaching kids these days?

In the UK, we teach them what the government tells us to. Web design is not on the curriculum.

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as "Alice's Restraunt Masacree" not being on the English or Music curriculum. I mean one must know the classics, surely! :ohdear:

Next you'll be telling me they don't cover "The Hobbit" in second grade!


Ed, a lot of these guys don't remember the 60s or 70s like we do. Wink
Remember? That's timeless. Arlo was arrested for littering, and went to court.

in Alice's Restaurant, Arlo wrote:
We walked in, sat down, [police officer] Obie came in with the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, sat down. Man came in said, "All rise." We all stood up, and Obie stood up with the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures, and the judge walked in sat down with a seeing eye dog, and he sat down, we sat down. Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog. And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry, 'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it, and the judge wasn't going to look at the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us. And we was fined $50 and had to pick up the garbage in the snow, …

My original point was not to bring too much to the table, it won't be appreciated. My metaphors seem to be either too subtle or too arcane for this crowd. That's why I talk to myself a lot lately; so I'll have a brilliant conversational partner. Laughing out loud

cheers,

gary

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Neither subtle or arcane

Neither subtle or arcane enough Gary, try harder, I like being stretched.

BTW Schools teach you nothing, don't blame schools they are an irrelevance, the desire to learn is all that one needs and a half decent mind, and then read , read, read.

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Hugo wrote:... and then read

Hugo wrote:
... and then read , read, read.

Readers are leaders. Laughing out loud