[split] Converting tables to CSS

Yes it makes perfect sense, and you can easily create a three-column layout in CSS using fixed-width left and right columns with a fluid center. We'll work on the logo once we've got the main page marked up.

Make a copy of the site in a subfolder, eg http://www.soviet-awards.com/test so you can work on a second copy.

First thing's first is tidying up your HEAD section - here's a new one:

The Soviet Military Awards Page. Medals, History and Russia!




@import "styles.css";

Nah. Don't make any comment. Right now, there're only two obsolete browsers in common use, IE≤6 and IE7. Anyone working with you on this will pretty much automagically supply work-arounds or hacks to satisfy these bits of cruft.

cheers,

gary

To add on to Gary's response (I forgot to mention it in my earlier reply), the notion that people will automatically use the latest version is folly.

Sure, in the case of Firefox, Opera, Safari etc, the people using it are mainly savvy enough to understand about these things - and in most cases the browsers automatically update anyway.

However, IE6 and IE7 don't have updates, they're set in stone. People using them won't change, and in many cases it's not through choice.

At work, we're using IE6, and there's no chance we'll be rolling out IE7 for a good few years yet. It's taken me weeks to package up Firefox into a usable state so the students can't access the settings, and that was version 2.0.0.5. We're up to 2.0.0.11 already

But this isn't something you need to worry about. Most 'real' browsers don't have a problem with what we do - in fact many of them support everything we use and more. However, IE is not a 'real' browser and has many bugs and idiosyncrasies to be aware of. Small hacks are needed here and there but anyone who takes this on will (should) take that into consideration

Thanks guys, hey is there something I can call you besides "thepineapplehead" ?

Why did you choose to use the @import instead of simply linking the style sheet?

Folder has been created on my site per your instructions..

I did a little scavenging around for some ideas and found this template which I've been looking at:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/holygrail

I thinking about using it for the framework of the site. It addresses all the concerns I wanted. I know it's cheating though which makes me feel a little guilty, but what do you guys think...

Art

Pine? TPH? PAH? Apple? Or Paul

It woudl be cheating to just copy and paste the end layout for your site. What you can do is work through the article and code your layotu from scratch, using it as guidance - that way you'll learn how each bit works.

I'm going to split this topic as we've veered away from the original question about a conversion service!

Okay, now you've got the subfolder, copy your index.html page into it.

Regarding the @import, I just copied it from the source of CSSCreator as a quick fix

Regarding the @import, I just copied it from the source of CSSCreator as a quick fix

Use the link tag the use of @import in this fashion was only ever a 'hack' to defeat early browsers such as NN4. the link tag is the correct method to call in external files, 'style' is a means of embedding code, these not hard and fast rules though!

Question on the site duplication...all I'm putting there are my html files and image files correct? I have several datafiles (forum, other programs) that I don't want publicly visible) also, several pages on my site are based on templates I created in dreamweaver. Will this pose a problem? Every month, I need to change the text on the index.html, and I need to add a little "new" graphic when there is an image update for any of the awards listed in the navbar. If you go to my site you'll see the little yellow triangle to the left.

Tell me if I understand @import correctly. I did a little reading outside of "class" and learned that the import hack is also used with two style sheets, both linked so that the first is loaded, then the second. The first style sheet contains CSS for early browsers. When the second sheet is loaded, only those browsers that can handle the advanced CSS will obviously do so. So by using the style statement along with @import, we are essentially saying, if you are NN4+, ignore styles.css (I'm assuming the advanced CSS sheet for my site will be "styles.css") Correct? So if I have NN4, we would need to have some sort of alternate CSS stylesheet then? I guess I'm confused as to how NN4 will display the site if it has no styling in the html, and no style sheet.

Damn! I knew you guys were going to take the high road and have me go through that template instead of stealing it that's O.K...this is working out good with my schedule with the small once a day Q&A, hope it is for you guys too..

NN4, IE4 and other browsers of the same vintage are not only obsolete, they are also hardly used. Most of us would reckon its not worth supporting them except under extraordinary circumstances. If you are able to view the recent access logs for your site you should be able to get details of the browsers your visitors use. I suspect the list will be mainly IE7, IE6, FF2, FF1.5 and a smattering of Opera, Safari, Konqeror & search engines. Possibly some IE5/5.5. From a development point of view you really only need to concern yourself with three, IE7, IE6 & FF2 - plus a cursory check of the others at the end. Normally, if a site works in FF it'll work in Opera & Safari. If you want to be "inclusive" your big decision is whether or not to care about IE5/5.5 and how much degradation you'll accept for it. I'd reckon you don't need to bother, but check your access logs.

Another thing to remember. If people are using obsolete browsers, they are also quite likely using old equipment - i.e. small screens.

Thanks Chris, I'm at work now so I'll check my logs when I get home. I would suspect that you are correct regarding IE7, IE6 & FF2 usage. I don't know that many people are using IE7, but I'd feel better planning for it now. Regarding IE5/5.5, frankly if I can get away without supporting it I'd rather not waste time and move forward. So, I will remove the @import reference from the head if I'm not going to support the vintage browsers.

For monitor size, I'm hoping that the fluid center will acommodate everyone, would it not?

Obviously figures can vary from site to site. The last time I checked a log, IE7 was ahead of IE6 in numbers of unique visitors.

Correct! here are my yearly stats to date:

Attachment	Size
other.gif	13.51 KB
nn.gif	13.49 KB
firefox.gif	13.93 KB
msie.gif	11.56 KB

That is still a lot of IE. Although that is the year and at the start IE7 was only just released. For IE6 v IE7 try comparing January and November.

It is alot of IE..here is January vs. November.

Attachment	Size
januaryIE.gif	7.21 KB
novemberIE.gif	5.48 KB