14 replies [Last post]
abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

The only way I learn is by doing. I've tried book-learning and it goes in one ear and it comes out the other. I need hands on stuff, so what the hell..I'll give it a go until either I crack, or you guys crack..

So, let's start with the basic structure. I currently have a 3 column fixed layout with a header and footer, I would like to go with the same, but have the center column fluid to accomodate larger screen widths. This presents me with a unique problem. The logo in my header is a fixed width. If the screen widens any more, the logo will shift either right or left. I would need a "windowpane" type effect to provide artwork to fill in the gap. Make sense?

As far as compatibility with other browsers, I don't want to have to worry about someone who is using a browser older than the most current. If they have a problem, they can upgrade. I would put a small message in the footer to this effect. How does this sound so far?

/topic split from http://csscreator.com/node/26982

thepineapplehead
thepineapplehead's picture
Offline
Guru
Last seen: 26 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 2004-06-30
Posts: 9668
Points: 801

Yes it makes perfect sense,

Yes it makes perfect sense, and you can easily create a three-column layout in CSS using fixed-width left and right columns with a fluid center. We'll work on the logo once we've got the main page marked up.

Make a copy of the site in a subfolder, eg http://www.soviet-awards.com/test so you can work on a second copy.

First thing's first is tidying up your HEAD section - here's a new one:

The Soviet Military Awards Page. Medals, History and Russia!




@import "styles.css";

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

gary.turner
gary.turner's picture
Offline
Moderator
Dallas
Last seen: 4 hours 49 min ago
Dallas
Timezone: GMT-5
Joined: 2004-06-25
Posts: 9767
Points: 3849

Quote:As far as

Quote:
As far as compatibility with other browsers, I don't want to have to worry about someone who is using a browser older than the most current. If they have a problem, they can upgrade. I would put a small message in the footer to this effect. How does this sound so far?

Nah. Don't make any comment. Right now, there're only two obsolete browsers in common use, IE≤6 and IE7. Anyone working with you on this will pretty much automagically supply work-arounds or hacks to satisfy these bits of cruft.

cheers,

gary

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

thepineapplehead
thepineapplehead's picture
Offline
Guru
Last seen: 26 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 2004-06-30
Posts: 9668
Points: 801

To add on to Gary's response

To add on to Gary's response (I forgot to mention it in my earlier reply), the notion that people will automatically use the latest version is folly.

Sure, in the case of Firefox, Opera, Safari etc, the people using it are mainly savvy enough to understand about these things - and in most cases the browsers automatically update anyway.

However, IE6 and IE7 don't have updates, they're set in stone. People using them won't change, and in many cases it's not through choice.

At work, we're using IE6, and there's no chance we'll be rolling out IE7 for a good few years yet. It's taken me weeks to package up Firefox into a usable state so the students can't access the settings, and that was version 2.0.0.5. We're up to 2.0.0.11 already Wink

But this isn't something you need to worry about. Most 'real' browsers don't have a problem with what we do - in fact many of them support everything we use and more. However, IE is not a 'real' browser and has many bugs and idiosyncrasies to be aware of. Small hacks are needed here and there but anyone who takes this on will (should) take that into consideration Wink

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

Thanks guys, hey is there

Thanks guys, hey is there something I can call you besides "thepineapplehead" Smile?

Why did you choose to use the @import instead of simply linking the style sheet?

Folder has been created on my site per your instructions..

I did a little scavenging around for some ideas and found this template which I've been looking at:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/holygrail

I thinking about using it for the framework of the site. It addresses all the concerns I wanted. I know it's cheating though which makes me feel a little guilty, but what do you guys think...

Art

thepineapplehead
thepineapplehead's picture
Offline
Guru
Last seen: 26 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 2004-06-30
Posts: 9668
Points: 801

Pine? TPH? PAH? Apple? Or

Pine? TPH? PAH? Apple? Or Paul Laughing out loud

It woudl be cheating to just copy and paste the end layout for your site. What you can do is work through the article and code your layotu from scratch, using it as guidance - that way you'll learn how each bit works.

I'm going to split this topic as we've veered away from the original question about a conversion service!

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

thepineapplehead
thepineapplehead's picture
Offline
Guru
Last seen: 26 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 2004-06-30
Posts: 9668
Points: 801

Okay, now you've got the

Okay, now you've got the subfolder, copy your index.html page into it.

Regarding the @import, I just copied it from the source of CSSCreator as a quick fix Wink

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

Hugo
Hugo's picture
Offline
Moderator
London
Last seen: 5 years 36 weeks ago
London
Joined: 2004-06-06
Posts: 15668
Points: 2806

thepineapplehead wrote:Okay,

thepineapplehead wrote:
Okay, now you've got the subfolder, copy your index.html page into it.

Regarding the @import, I just copied it from the source of CSSCreator as a quick fix Wink

Use the link tag the use of @import in this fashion was only ever a 'hack' to defeat early browsers such as NN4. the link tag is the correct method to call in external files, 'style' is a means of embedding code, these not hard and fast rules though!

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please post ALL your code - both CSS & HTML - in [code] tags
Please validate and ensure you have included a full Doctype before posting.
Why validate? Read Me

abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

Question on the site

Question on the site duplication...all I'm putting there are my html files and image files correct? I have several datafiles (forum, other programs) that I don't want publicly visible) also, several pages on my site are based on templates I created in dreamweaver. Will this pose a problem? Every month, I need to change the text on the index.html, and I need to add a little "new" graphic when there is an image update for any of the awards listed in the navbar. If you go to my site you'll see the little yellow triangle to the left.

Tell me if I understand @import correctly. I did a little reading outside of "class" and learned that the import hack is also used with two style sheets, both linked so that the first is loaded, then the second. The first style sheet contains CSS for early browsers. When the second sheet is loaded, only those browsers that can handle the advanced CSS will obviously do so. So by using the style statement along with @import, we are essentially saying, if you are NN4+, ignore styles.css (I'm assuming the advanced CSS sheet for my site will be "styles.css") Correct? So if I have NN4, we would need to have some sort of alternate CSS stylesheet then? I guess I'm confused as to how NN4 will display the site if it has no styling in the html, and no style sheet.

Damn! I knew you guys were going to take the high road and have me go through that template instead of stealing it Wink that's O.K...this is working out good with my schedule with the small once a day Q&A, hope it is for you guys too..

Chris..S
Chris..S's picture
Offline
Moderator
Last seen: 8 years 2 days ago
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2005-02-22
Posts: 6078
Points: 173

NN4, IE4 and other browsers

NN4, IE4 and other browsers of the same vintage are not only obsolete, they are also hardly used. Most of us would reckon its not worth supporting them except under extraordinary circumstances. If you are able to view the recent access logs for your site you should be able to get details of the browsers your visitors use. I suspect the list will be mainly IE7, IE6, FF2, FF1.5 and a smattering of Opera, Safari, Konqeror & search engines. Possibly some IE5/5.5. From a development point of view you really only need to concern yourself with three, IE7, IE6 & FF2 - plus a cursory check of the others at the end. Normally, if a site works in FF it'll work in Opera & Safari. If you want to be "inclusive" your big decision is whether or not to care about IE5/5.5 and how much degradation you'll accept for it. I'd reckon you don't need to bother, but check your access logs.

Another thing to remember. If people are using obsolete browsers, they are also quite likely using old equipment - i.e. small screens.

abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

Thanks Chris, I'm at work

Thanks Chris, I'm at work now so I'll check my logs when I get home. I would suspect that you are correct regarding IE7, IE6 & FF2 usage. I don't know that many people are using IE7, but I'd feel better planning for it now. Regarding IE5/5.5, frankly if I can get away without supporting it I'd rather not waste time and move forward. So, I will remove the @import reference from the head if I'm not going to support the vintage browsers.

For monitor size, I'm hoping that the fluid center will acommodate everyone, would it not?

Chris..S
Chris..S's picture
Offline
Moderator
Last seen: 8 years 2 days ago
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2005-02-22
Posts: 6078
Points: 173

Obviously figures can vary

Obviously figures can vary from site to site. The last time I checked a log, IE7 was ahead of IE6 in numbers of unique visitors.

abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

Correct! here are my yearly

Correct! here are my yearly stats to date:

AttachmentSize
other.gif 13.51 KB
nn.gif 13.49 KB
firefox.gif 13.93 KB
msie.gif 11.56 KB
Chris..S
Chris..S's picture
Offline
Moderator
Last seen: 8 years 2 days ago
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2005-02-22
Posts: 6078
Points: 173

That is still a lot of IE.

That is still a lot of IE. Although that is the year and at the start IE7 was only just released. For IE6 v IE7 try comparing January and November.

abates
Offline
Enthusiast
Buffalo NY
Last seen: 12 years 33 weeks ago
Buffalo NY
Timezone: GMT-4
Joined: 2007-10-19
Posts: 79
Points: 0

It is alot of IE..here is

It is alot of IE..here is January vs. November.

AttachmentSize
januaryIE.gif 7.21 KB
novemberIE.gif 5.48 KB