61 replies [Last post]
Smee
Smee's picture
Offline
Elder
Adelaide, Oz
Last seen: 2 years 16 weeks ago
Adelaide, Oz
Timezone: GMT+9.5
Joined: 2007-06-10
Posts: 1596
Points: 340

me wrote:there's no way I

me wrote:
there's no way I can teach someone else to update the newsletter page

Just had a brainwave! Yeeesss! I can! I can introduce them to the FORUM!}:)

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile

roytheboy
roytheboy's picture
Offline
Guru
North Wales, UK
Last seen: 6 years 11 weeks ago
North Wales, UK
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2004-09-18
Posts: 2233
Points: 41

Smee (or is it Vicky), I too

Smee (or is it Vicky), I too am concerned for your time and effort being taken for granted. Just because the c'tee are experienced mediums and/or spiritualists, doesn't give them the right to demand things from you that you might not otherwise do if you didn't have an interest in the subject. They should treat your skills and efforts with respect and stop making stupid demands upon you.

Speaking as someone whose mother trained under or knew people such as Doris Collins, Leslie Flint and Harry Edwards, I can speak with a tiny bit of knowledge and experience here when I say that there's nothing worse than a gifted medium/phychic whose ego has got the better of them - apart from a group of gifted mediums whose egos have got the better of them. I've seen it loads of times and it starts with the sort of glorified self-promotion that is evident on the website you are working on.

The point I am making is that you have volunteered to help 'the mission' (what a ghastly name) because of your interests, and the 'committee' seem to be taking your efforts for granted. Don't put up with it. You're doing a sterling job so YOU should be calling the shots. None of the esteemed people I mentioned above used to behave like that, so why do they? I agree with Hugo on this one. Tell them the way it's going to be and don't be intimidated by them. Being a good medium does not put you on a pedestal and it sounds like they need to be reminded of that fact.

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

Hugo
Hugo's picture
Offline
Moderator
London
Last seen: 4 years 40 weeks ago
London
Joined: 2004-06-06
Posts: 15668
Points: 2806

Hm afraid it's a classic

Hm afraid it's a classic 'want something for nothing', you now need to explain that as you were doing this out of the goodness of your heart there is a limit to the work that you can complete on unless there is firm acknowledgement and agreement that the work will be used and that as there was no project scope laid out in the first instance any extras or after thoughts such as a CMS will require substantially more work and may require the mission to dig into their pockets and treat the job seriously.

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please post ALL your code - both CSS & HTML - in [code] tags
Please validate and ensure you have included a full Doctype before posting.
Why validate? Read Me

gary.turner
gary.turner's picture
Offline
Moderator
Dallas
Last seen: 22 hours 59 min ago
Dallas
Timezone: GMT-5
Joined: 2004-06-25
Posts: 9743
Points: 3822

roytheboy wrote:kk5st

roytheboy wrote:
kk5st wrote:
@Roy: You are correct as far as you went ... While not, strictly speaking, deprecated, its use is pretty much limited to a, map and form controls.

Gary - having just re-read your post, I feel the need to further thrash out the detail about the 'name' attribute in the interests of clarity. The explanation of the 'name' attribute that you cite is from the W3C spec for HTML4.01 forms, not anchor tags, which is where my citation came from as follows:

name "This attribute names the current anchor so that it may be the destination of another link."
Actually, the note about id vs. name comes also from the img element.

Quote:
As we are specifically talking about anchor tags in this thread, I just wanted to reiterate that the current specs for HTML4.01 do not in any way suggest or even hint at - strictly speaking or otherwise - the use of the 'name' attribute being depreciated for anchor tags. Furthermore the specs make it very clear that whilst the 'id' attribute can be used, the 'name' attribute is still the primary mechanism for naming anchor elements and that it has better backwards compatibility and the ability to include entities.

I've already said I overextended the name attribute's deprecation. The use of name as a fragment identifier is frowned upon or belongs on elements not valid in a strict DTD, except for <a> and <map>. (Neither of which have I used in a long time, if at all—explaining my lack of appreciation for the attribute.) You are correct about using it in an anchor.

As to backward compatibility, the requirement is as dead as the involved browsers.

cheers,

gary

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

Smee
Smee's picture
Offline
Elder
Adelaide, Oz
Last seen: 2 years 16 weeks ago
Adelaide, Oz
Timezone: GMT+9.5
Joined: 2007-06-10
Posts: 1596
Points: 340

Roy wrote:Smee (or is it

Roy wrote:
Smee (or is it Vicky)

Both or neither as you wish. (It')S mee, Vicki - as long as you spell Vicki with an 'i' Smile

Roy wrote:
They should treat your skills and efforts with respect and stop making stupid demands upon you.

Ah! There's the rub Smile They have left me entirely alone with it, no demands whatsoever - no feedback even, except for one meeting back in March when they said that they preferred the patterned sidebar (I started with a plain one) and were amenable to a new logo . In fact try as I might earlier in the year to get some involvement and ideas, they were too busy. So maybe they didn't think it would ever come to this, but I've actually done it all in a bit of a vacuum which is why the forum, quite apart from the technical help, has been so important to me Smile

The thing is, over the last year we have had some well-known international guests, all due to Lis and Jim who have forged some important links for the Mission (and yes, it is a ghastly name apart from being sooo dated). It was this that mainly got me going I think. Not only did I find the existing website confusing (never could tell the difference between news, events and activities), it was a bit of an embarrassment really to be promoting it, in its current state, to these people and their organisations.

Roy wrote:
Speaking as someone whose mother trained under or knew people such as Doris Collins, Leslie Flint and Harry Edwards, I can speak with a tiny bit of knowledge and experience here when I say that there's nothing worse than a gifted medium/phychic whose ego has got the better of them - apart from a group of gifted mediums whose egos have got the better of them.

Shock Well would you lookee that! Laughing out loud Actually ego is something that most people at the Mission are reasonably devoid of, thank heavens. We don't struggle financially as many others do (Spiritualism in Oz has nowhere near the recognition it has in England and probably the USA), our focus is increasing the visibility of the Mission and its work as well as making it enjoyable and rewarding for people to attend. We usually have a good turn-up and it's probably the most innovative and forward-thinking Spiritualist church I've been associated with.

Be that as it may, I'm not sure that the c'tee realises just how much a better one website may influence how we are perceived by those new friends.

Quote:
I've seen it loads of times and it starts with the sort of glorified self-promotion that is evident on the website you are working on.

Oh dear, I must have done something wrong then, I was just trying to 'keep up with the Joneses' as it were. As I just explained, the website is where some of the organisations we are now in contact with will go to get a better feel of who we are. We actually have had 2 tutors from the SNU just recently commit to coming here in 2009 solely through Lis and Jim's efforts and those of the guests we have had over the last 12 months.

Quote:
the 'committee' seem to be taking your efforts for granted. Don't put up with it. You're doing a sterling job so YOU should be calling the shots. None of the esteemed people I mentioned above used to behave like that, so why do they?

I don't actually think the committee thought much about me at all Smile It has all come to a head because I wanted to know whether they were really interested in adopting the website I've been doing, or whether I really was just completing it for the exercise of doing so.

Quote:
I agree with Hugo on this one. Tell them the way it's going to be and don't be intimidated by them. Being a good medium does not put you on a pedestal and it sounds like they need to be reminded of that fact.

There was a rumour that the committee were going to get a quote from a professional web designer, if they did, (and I don't know one way or the other at the moment) this letter may well have been influenced by the rude shock they may have received at the cost and hence some of the 'requests' I might now receive to change/add to it. Smile

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile

Smee
Smee's picture
Offline
Elder
Adelaide, Oz
Last seen: 2 years 16 weeks ago
Adelaide, Oz
Timezone: GMT+9.5
Joined: 2007-06-10
Posts: 1596
Points: 340

Hello Hugo... Quote:Hm

Hello Hugo...

Quote:
Hm afraid it's a classic 'want something for nothing'

While it wasn't true in the beginning, it may well be now if indeed they have actually gone and got a quote elsewhere, as I said, I don't really know at this stage but I will find out soon I think.

Quote:
you now need to explain that as you were doing this out of the goodness of your heart there is a limit to the work that you can complete on unless there is firm acknowledgement and agreement that the work will be used

Bingo! The demo site is at a stage where I don't think I can take it any further anyway - 'cept for all my tweaking. Smile

Quote:
and that as there was no project scope laid out in the first instance any extras or after thoughts such as a CMS will require substantially more work and may require the mission to dig into their pockets and treat the job seriously.

As I understand it now (and have probably only come to realise in the last month), wrapping it in a CMS would virtually mean rewriting it anyway. That would be beyond me, so I am concentrating on making the conversion, if it happens, as easy and painless as possible so that the spirit of what I've tried to do is retained. But yes, I will be pointing out to them that the time is drawing near when they will have to spend money to get what they think they want, I only hope I;ll be able to influence them in the right direction through all I've learned here. Smile

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile

Hugo
Hugo's picture
Offline
Moderator
London
Last seen: 4 years 40 weeks ago
London
Joined: 2004-06-06
Posts: 15668
Points: 2806

Bare in mind that our

Bare in mind that our comments are probably a little harsh re the sea'tee but are based on wariness despite how much you might be involved and willing to give of your time freely.

It would be possible to wrap the site in something like Wordpress to provide a basic CMS and blog functions and still retain the look and feel but it is a fair degree of work.

Before you make your first post it is vital that you READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Please post ALL your code - both CSS & HTML - in [code] tags
Please validate and ensure you have included a full Doctype before posting.
Why validate? Read Me

roytheboy
roytheboy's picture
Offline
Guru
North Wales, UK
Last seen: 6 years 11 weeks ago
North Wales, UK
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2004-09-18
Posts: 2233
Points: 41

Bare in mind also that my

Bare in mind also that my comments are rooted in a personal dislike of mediums whose egos get the better of them. Could you guess? The greats remain humble throughout their lives, but I have witnessed a few examples of the opposite over the years. I apologise if I caused any offence and/or miss-read the signs. I'm not a spiritualist, by the way, even though I do understand what it's all about.

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

Smee
Smee's picture
Offline
Elder
Adelaide, Oz
Last seen: 2 years 16 weeks ago
Adelaide, Oz
Timezone: GMT+9.5
Joined: 2007-06-10
Posts: 1596
Points: 340

Hugo wrote:Bare in mind that

Hugo wrote:
Bare in mind that our comments are probably a little harsh re the sea'tee but are based on wariness despite how much you might be involved and willing to give of your time freely.

No, not harsh Hugo, I do understand the wariness based on experience Smile And as a matter of fact, I've been subconsciously mulling all day on what my response might be. I do think you and Roy are correct though in advising me to be careful of committing to a heap of extra requests because they see it being done for free - and I do appreciate the concern you have both expressed. Smile

Hugo wrote:
It would be possible to wrap the site in something like Wordpress to provide a basic CMS and blog functions and still retain the look and feel but it is a fair degree of work.

I thought as much. Anyone care to give me some sort of ballpark figure as a reference?

Roy wrote:
Bare in mind also that my comments are rooted in a personal dislike of mediums whose egos get the better of them. Could you guess?

Yes, I can agree with you there are, and I suppose always will be, those mediums who are swayed by becoming well-known just as with anyone given flattery and publicity.

Roy wrote:
I apologise if I caused any offence and/or miss-read the signs. I'm not a spiritualist, by the way, even though I do understand what it's all about.

No offence taken at all Roy. You obviously have your reasons for not adopting it yourself even though you have obviously been exposed to the 'real deal' as it were, as well as the 'wanna be'

However, this comment has given me pause...

Roy wrote:
I've seen it loads of times and it starts with the sort of glorified self-promotion that is evident on the website you are working on.

I really am interested in how you (and Hugo, and anyone else reading this) perceive the site. I found it was quite difficult to steer a course so that the site did not appear to be a personal site, a 'church' site or a 'new age spiritual' site (which has nothing to do with spiritualism). I've obviously missed the mark if you think of it as "glorified self-promotion".

I'm interested in why you find the site, or what it says, or how it says it - to be off-putting shall we say?

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile

roytheboy
roytheboy's picture
Offline
Guru
North Wales, UK
Last seen: 6 years 11 weeks ago
North Wales, UK
Timezone: GMT+1
Joined: 2004-09-18
Posts: 2233
Points: 41

Phrases like "...one of the

Phrases like "...one of the world's foremost..." (in whose opinion?) and "...is listed among the top 100 Psychics..." (whose list?) immediately get my guard up. Use of titles such as 'Reverend' and 'Mission' further wind me up. I'm probably being grossly unfair to those concerned but these are the 'signs' that you wanted me to specify. It's easy to get caught up with the fashion for promotional profiles, and they may well be 100% true, but that doesn't alter the impression I get from the use of such phrases.

Add the above to the general feeling both Hugo and I had/have about how you are unquestionably being taken for granted by these people and the result is an uncomfortable feeling of egos out of bounds.

Without wanting to get so far off topic that there's no hope of return, I should add that despite my upbringing I also have a problem with Spiritualism in general, in that it was originally modelled on 'the church' as in Christianity. I have no time for Christianity either, or any 'religion' in fact, as I happen to feel that the way to personal and spiritual enlightenment is through ones self and nature's automatically given instincts of moral fortitude and selfless service to others and the greater good. Most people possess these qualities but it's up to the individual how far they go to enhance or suppress them ...'life's lessons and how you deal with them' as you might say Smile

Being able to channel spirits/entities/angels/saints/higher forces/the source/the management/the god-head - call it what you like - goes beyond the boundaries of all religions and 'movements' and is encompassed by them all in different flavours (especially true of Christianity if you read the Bible). But I can't help thinking that Spiritualism has had its day and needs to evolve beyond the 'churchy' persona that made it so popular a century ago.

So; now I've offended Spiritualists and Christians alike, and got everyone thinking that I'm some kind of weirdo ( DON'T say anything Hugo Wink ), I'll go back to focusing on issues of floats and collapsing margins. Yes, I have very much been exposed to the 'real deal', but that doesn't make it any easier to fit all of life's jigsaw pieces together in order to visualise a cohesive 'system' that one can label 'life' or even 'life after death'. :?

Life's a b*tch and then you die!

Smee
Smee's picture
Offline
Elder
Adelaide, Oz
Last seen: 2 years 16 weeks ago
Adelaide, Oz
Timezone: GMT+9.5
Joined: 2007-06-10
Posts: 1596
Points: 340

Quote:Phrases like "...one

Quote:
Phrases like "...one of the world's foremost..." (in whose opinion?) and "...is listed among the top 100 Psychics..." (whose list?) immediately get my guard up. Use of titles such as 'Reverend' and 'Mission' further wind me up. I'm probably being grossly unfair to those concerned but these are the 'signs' that you wanted me to specify.

Hmmm...interesting and I don't necessarily disagree with you Shock I took this from Anne's (presumably) preferred bio, since it's the one on her own site. However, having spent the best part of a week with her, I can say she is genuinely one of the self-effacing. She had just had her 70th birthday (and yes she looks just like that!) and has been a working medium since she was 14. During that week there were very few instances of her promoting either herself or her gifts, in fact she and her husband were regarded by most as exemplifying spiritualism - really living it day to day. However, I grant that they are perhaps unfortunate phrases.

And I can agree with the comments about 'Reverend' (which I believe originated from the fence-straddling of those early proponents of Spiritualism) and 'Mission' - again unfortunate but they were trying to underline their independence from Christianity (so we have a Leader Smile)

Quote:
Without wanting to get so far off topic that there's no hope of return, I should add that despite my upbringing I also have a problem with Spiritualism in general, in that it was originally modelled on 'the church' as in Christianity.

No, I too am conscious of getting too OT Smile But for this and the point above the 'Religion or Philosophy' article has some interesting background.

Quote:
....I happen to feel that the way to personal and spiritual enlightenment is through ones self and nature's automatically given instincts of moral fortitude and selfless service to others and the greater good. Most people possess these qualities but it's up to the individual how far they go to enhance or suppress them ...'life's lessons and how you deal with them' as you might say Smile

Well said.

Quote:
But I can't help thinking that Spiritualism has had its day...

There I can't agree. The world we live in constantly sends people searching for something else doesn't it? When all the time it's within - Spiritualism's basics.

Quote:
...and needs to evolve beyond the 'churchy' persona that made it so popular a century ago.

Yes, this is part and parcel of the 'Reverend' problem of trying to 'look' like a church - trying originally to give some 'validity' to the organisation? - and is quite interesting in that the NSAC, (which is the USA's umbrella organisation as the SNU is in England) most definitely is not a Christian Spiritualist church.

Quote:
So; now I've offended Spiritualists and Christians alike, and got everyone thinking that I'm some kind of weirdo...

Well no more weird than me at any rate! Laughing out loud And you certainly haven't offended me. Will I discuss it? Most definitely yes. Will I get upset because you don't believe what I do? I hope not - I actually do believe people can hold different opinions. Smile

Quote:
Yes, I have very much been exposed to the 'real deal', but that doesn't make it any easier to fit all of life's jigsaw pieces together in order to visualise a cohesive 'system' that one can label 'life' or even 'life after death'. :?

Amen to that! :bigoops:

Thanks Roy, I do appreciate your being candid since it is important to the success or otherwise of the site to get feedback.

Mods and gurus – THANK YOU!
For your time, knowledge and experience so willingly and generously given.
Please come back tomorrow and sort us all out again Smile