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Anonymous
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Quote:
> On Oct 10, 2007, at 4:51 PM, Church Kid wrote:
>
> MARK NOW THE WEBSITE IS DOWN, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO?

I don't know... I guess you could start changing all the stationery.

Sucks to wait until it's too late, doesn't it?

I created, ran and funded the site for a church for 6 years, 4 of which no one cared about it or even looked at it or even told anyone about it. Then the pastor's son got his meathooks into it.

Well, I started going to another church so I gave the domain name to them and they refused to renew it...

Hmm...apparently someone else registered it for a year. It was a really good name, too.

I apologized for the above email after it was sent though. It was a rather mean thing to say.

I don't know. The only person that ever looked at it was Church Kid.

Hugo
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I asume that 'Church Kid' is

I asume that 'Church Kid' is the same one that you mentioned a while back that was giving you so much grief. The email was a little harsh but then again given the circumstances leading up to it I probably would have fired off something similar. Not much that can be done now is there? they lost the domain name they would have had many opportunities to renew it names are not instantly released for re-assignment.

They will just have to register a new name and as you say re-design their stationary Smile or wait a year and hope that the new registrant forgets to renew it letting them nip in their and snatch it back, but that is a long shot Smile

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Triumph (not verified)
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Long shot is right. The

Long shot is right.

The domain name was under my account and I've been repeatedly trying to transfer it to Church Kid over the past 6 months and they've refused the transfer each time I assume thinking I'll keep paying for it.

Apparently Church Kid was in a bad way last night at church. I do almost feel bad about the whole situation.

Deuce
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Sort of the same thing

Sort of the same thing happened to me.
I recently left a job for a much nicer one, but they keep calling me asking me to fix things.
After being treated like crap for 6 months, I have a hard time caring about their sites anymore.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

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gary.turner
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Deuce wrote:Sort of the same

Deuce wrote:
Sort of the same thing happened to me.
I recently left a job for a much nicer one, but they keep calling me asking me to fix things.
After being treated like crap for 6 months, I have a hard time caring about their sites anymore.

But, you should care deeply. After all, you're now an outside consultant and charging them, say, $150/hr with a four hour minimum on each call. Right?

The next time they call, simply explain that you'll jump right on it on receipt of a purchase order authorizing, oh, up to ten hours @150USD against a four hour minimum on that specific issue. They'll either agree or stop calling. Either way, you're happy.

cheers,

gary

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

Triumph (not verified)
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kk5st wrote:But, you should

kk5st wrote:
But, you should care deeply. After all, you're now an outside consultant and charging them, say, $150/hr with a four hour minimum on each call. Right?

The next time they call, simply explain that you'll jump right on it on receipt of a purchase order authorizing, oh, up to ten hours @150USD against a four hour minimum on that specific issue. They'll either agree or stop calling. Either way, you're happy.
I like the way you think.

Katie
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kk5st wrote: The next time

kk5st wrote:

The next time they call, simply explain that you'll jump right on it on receipt of a purchase order authorizing, oh, up to ten hours @150USD against a four hour minimum on that specific issue.

Hee hee! Amen to that!

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Deuce
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Wow, I have SEVERELY under

Wow, I have SEVERELY under estimated what other freelancers charge.

I have given into on consultations at $35 a hour and work at $50 a hour.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

Triumph (not verified)
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Deuce wrote:Wow, I have

Deuce wrote:
Wow, I have SEVERELY under estimated what other freelancers charge.

I have given into on consultations at $35 a hour and work at $50 a hour.
It depends on the area ...

... and how much you dislike the people you're charging. Wink

gary.turner
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Hourly rates

Deuce wrote:
Wow, I have SEVERELY under estimated what other freelancers charge.

I have given into on consultations at $35 a hour and work at $50 a hour.
If anything, you should reverse the fee structure. Consultation time is more valuable per unit time than doing the work, much of which is stenographic.

If you have a business, you must figure in a lot more than your own pay[1] as developer. You're also the business's manager, and deserving of wages, and as owner, you should show a profit. And, don't forget the wages of any employees and other overhead expenses.

All that must be figured into the number of billable hours. A good starting place is to figure you can't bill more than about 40% of the week's hours on average, i.e. 16 hours for a one man operation[2].

Now, I pulled the $150/hr figure out of my [nether regions] for this thread, as a means of running off the leeches or making it an emotionally satisfying job. It is not an indefensible number. For a small home shop, $75+/any part of an hour would be a good number for estimating fees. For hourly billed fees, a minimum is required.

cheers,

gary

[1] If you want to pay your developer, even yourself, $50,000/annum, it will cost the business ≈$75,000 when you add in insurance, taxes, retirement, etc..

[2] There are economies of scale. If you hire a developer and can bill all his hours, you can now bill 56 hours (his + yours) of the 80 in a, now, two man operation.
Assume:
1 developer/manager (you) salary $60,000 cost to business = $90,000.

Overhead: space, utilities, insurance, taxes, equipment depreciation, etc. = $36,000.

Small profit, 10% of sales = 0.1×gross sales ($14,000).

$140,000/1000 billable hours = $140/hr required rate.

Add one developer @50k ($75k cost)

Salaries, $165,000
Overhead, $36,000
Profit, $22,333 (10% of gross sales)
Hourly, $223,333/2500 billable hours ≈$90/hr required rate

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

Deuce
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you put some thought into

you put some thought into this, eh?

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

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SuperRoach
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it sounds a bit like that

it sounds a bit like that freelance calculator on the web Tongue

But, he is right....

unfortunately, a lot of people come to you "to put a page on that internet thing" and have the guts to say $200 or $200 per page but damn it better be good. arrgh.

Triumph (not verified)
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ChurchKid is putting up his

ChurchKid is putting up his own site now. He's been telling everyone that "Godaddy makes it easy" but he hasn't put anything up except a picture of the church and "COMING SOON".

Deuce
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tell him to come to

tell him to come to networksolutions.com - they'll make it easy.
they do full on designs for $1,500 flat.

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

mihirc
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Wow, Gary... How much time

Wow, Gary...

How much time did you spend calculating this?

Nice detailed study.. it will help me in the future, when i decide to start my own firm... i doubt i will be paying THAT much... but i can scale it down to proportions. And i really like your thinking... retirement??? wow, that was something, thats not on my mind also.. make provision, is what i'll learn from this...

This, site rocks big time. I mean, its fine to help and get helped, but for a beginner like me, getting an insight of how to manage your money, its really great..

thanks,

mihir Smile

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Triumph (not verified)
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ChurchKid put up his new

ChurchKid put up his new site yesterday and he's already got messages on his guestbook stating what a great job he did. *sigh* All I ever got was complaints.

I know I'm not supposed to feel this way but I do. The new site is a joke. :curse:

Well, good for him, I guess. :rolleyes:

Deuce
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link?

link? Wink

all » http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all

Google isn't a bunch of guys reading and grading web sites, it's more like a bunch of monkeys sniffing food and putting the good bananas at the top. -Triumph

Triumph (not verified)
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Deuce wrote:link? PM

Deuce wrote:
link? Wink

PM inbound. Tongue

rmfred
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Oh yes a link please? I've

Oh yes a link please? I've just gotta see this.

SuperRoach
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While your at it, pm me too

While your at it, pm me too Tongue

Its funny how the right people (or wrong!) will get a positive response, while someone that does the hardwork will just get criticized.

Awaiting Table based design in 3, 2...........