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Smee
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Is it really any wonder you end up with so many misinformed newbies in the forum?
It would seem that W3C has forgotten to update itself to its own standards.

There I was just following my nose again and I ended up here...

http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss

With my own very limited knowledge I think I spotted 3 things that are now frowned upon.

It's a shame that W3C is held up to be the source for web standards by many and yet what is probably the most basic tutorial on their site is not kept up to date. Or is it a case I wonder, of them thinking there is so much information on the web and they have so much to document, that this just got lost in the shuffle? :?

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Hugo
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Technically there is nothing

Technically there is nothing contra standards in the examples, it's a bit old but also intended to be a simple as possibly can be, granted there are better basic tutorial sites around (perhaps the W3C oughtn't to worry themselves too much with basic tuts)

The use of position absolute isn't the best approach but equally it has been used in a fashion that works and doesn't break the layout, absolute is fine to use but only when one understands exactly how it works and how it will come a cropper on anything remotely advanced in terms of layout.

The DTD is actually a valid standards switching one and would invoke strict mode , DTD's are slightly more complex than is generally let on , it's simpler that people just include the type definition and url identifier.

I hazard a guess that maintaining a site such as the W3C is a minor nightmare I've come across pages that I have never seen before and failed to ever find again Smile, I think that they themselves are the first to admit that the site as a whole isn't the best laid out, I believe that a gradual process of re-writing a lot of pages is underway, and which involves an outside technical writing company doing the work, but I read that a while ago and am not sure whether it's true or not.

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burlster
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Tut tut

Not to dig up old graves but I still think the site is just outright ugly and unintuitive catering exclusively for the professionals and not for the people fresh in to Web Design!

Still, it has the information in a basic format which I'm sure is a large part of their argument behind things so they've probably chosen the right design.

John

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I think that a lot of people

I think that a lot of people would agree that it's not the best laid out site, but as for style/presentation it's a technical site there to serve a specific requirement for essentially presenting technical specification, and in that respect it needs to be as plain as possible, sites with that sort of content I want to be as simple as possible I don't want any distractions from the content.

A good example of that I find is Ingo's site nothing detracts from the content yet it has a simplicity of styling that is pleasant

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I would agree with you there

I would agree with you there John Laughing out loud Is really isn't that aesthetically pleasing, but then again, what can you expect? Written by techies for techies Tongue

Hugo wrote:
The DTD is actually a valid standards switching one and would invoke strict mode , DTD's are slightly more complex than is generally let on , it's simpler that people just include the type definition and url identifier.

There you go! I didn't know enough to know it would invoke strict mode, it did hit me in the eye though after seeing the long version everywhere.

Another was this...

Quote:
In HTML (but not in XHTML), it is allowed to omit the and

...and I've see that before and then seen a correction - so which is true?

Well done Sir Hugo! You're getting to know my mind better than me Tongue

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Me is a mentalist Forgot

Me is a mentalist Cool

Forgot to mention the omitted closing tags, if one reads the DTD for html it informs that certain tags are 'Implied' such as closing out lists the closing ul signifies the end of the block, you also do not need to implicitly write out body tags as they are taken for granted as a document must have them, so these in html 4 may legitimately be left off, personally I would prefer not to :shrug:

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Hugo wrote:Me is a mentalist

Hugo wrote:
Me is a mentalist Cool

ROFL!!! Careful there...you're straying into my territory, you'll be saying you're psychic next! Shock Tongue

Hugo wrote:
...it informs that certain tags are 'Implied' such as closing out lists the closing ul signifies the end of the block,

Hmmm...that's what I meant. I read on the Arachnophilia site that Lutus thought the same thing and then decided they did have to be specified and changed his program in the rewrite to Java to always close them...but I'm with you...it's much tidier and not a lot of effort to put them it. Besides, I have enough problems to contend with without trying to figure out if something actually has closed because I thought it should, I like to eyeball it. Wink

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Hugo wrote:granted there are

Hugo wrote:
granted there are better basic tutorial sites around

Hugo, care to point me their direction?

To anyone, please recommend a good book that is great for beginners?

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These two are excellent

These two are excellent starting points:

http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/

http://www.htmldog.com/

They'll keep beginners happy for a while Smile htmldog is an excellent site, be sure if starting out to concentrate on HTML (markup) first before thinking too much about presentation using CSS

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burlster
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Book time!

dugal wrote:
To anyone, please recommend a good book that is great for beginners?

Beginning CSS Web Development : From Novice to Professional
Simon Collison
ISBN : 1-59059-689-7

Check that one out Smile

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dugal
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Thanks burlster, I have

Thanks burlster, I have already checked it out from another thread, i only added the comment here as there we no other comments at the time on the other thread Smile