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durdledoor
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Afternoon All

Just a quick question. We're creating a site for schools in the UK and aren't sure whether or not to design for 1024 widths, and ignore those on 800. It seems to us that most don't use 800 these days. Would anyone have any comments on that?

Would any by any chance specifically know which resolutions kids are mainly on in British schools?

Thanks very much for any help
Durdledoor

karinne
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This is such a debatable

This is such a debatable subject ... some say go for it, some don't.

I would say, not 1024 but more like 900. The problem is, people who have bigger monitor have higher res ... that's true BUT! who's to say they have their browsers maximized!

For example, I have a 20.1 inch widescreen monitor at home with a res of 1600x1280, but I sure as heck don't have my browser open to 1600 width. So you need to keep that in mind as well.

ClevaTreva
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You could simply have it

You could simply have it full width.

But, sitting in a classroom right now Smile

Almost all our pc's are 1280 x1024, but the overhead projectors are set to 1024 x 768.

We have a few (all due to be replaced either soon or 2008) that are 800x600. Very few though.

[edit] but no more than 950 px wide for the pages, ta

durdledoor
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Thanks very much cleva treva

Thanks very much cleva treva and karinne, thats really helpful.

Would any of you know any web sites with statistics that show the average screen resolution?

Thanks

durdledoor

thepineapplehead
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http://www.w3schools.com/brow

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karinne
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thecounter.com is probably

thecounter.com is probably the best place to look

Here are stats for february 2007

karinne
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thepineapplehead

But that one doesn't give you resolution stats ... only browsers.

Chris..S
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use that wheel on your mouse

use that wheel on your mouse Wink

karinne
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Chris..S wrote:use that

Chris..S wrote:
use that wheel on your mouse Wink

*slaps forehead* DOH! Laughing out loud

durdledoor
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Thanks very much everyone,

Thanks very much everyone, thats been really helpful.

Chris S, did you mean that I should have looked it up myself when you said use the wheel on the mouse? Apologies if you felt I was being lazy, the question seemed to be a natural one to ask.

Have a good weekend, we've decided to go for a page width of about 900.

Durdledoor[right]

karinne
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No ... he was talking to me

No ... he was talking to me about the w3schools page. I didn't notice that there was the res stuff when you scrolled down the page.

gary.turner
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karinne wrote:No ... he was

karinne wrote:
No ... he was talking to me about the w3schools page. I didn't notice that there was the res stuff when you scrolled down the page.

Screen resolution only defines the available maximized window size. As you pointed out, a smaller window is often used.

Except for a really old notebook, all my screens are larger, up to 1600px width. I seldom run the browser at anything larger than 800

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

thepineapplehead
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Just for the record, my 17"

Just for the record, my 17" CRT used to run at 1152x864, my 19" TFT runs at 1280x1024, my work laptop is 1024x768.

All with maximised browsers Laughing out loud

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gary.turner
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Maximized browsers

@ TPH:

Why? I mean why waste all the screen real estate? I find it much more efficient to run apps as small as reasonable so that multiple apps can be visible at a time. I always figured the larger the screen, the more data it can hold, as apposed to spreading the same data over a larger area.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that way. :shrug:

cheers,

gary

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thepineapplehead
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You know, I don't actually

You know, I don't actually know if there's an underlying reason for it.

I run all my apps, games, etc full screen. The only things that aren't maximised are folders (eg when opening My Docs or the Recycle Bin).

I'm more than happy to dedicated all the available space on my screen to whatever I'm doing. For example, if I have a site open in FF and the code open in notepad2, it's easier for me to work on if both apps are full-screen and I can alt-tab between them.

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Hugo
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It drives me mad when I have

It drives me mad when I have to tend to the odd clients machine where they run everything full screen.

At the moment I have my editor, command prompt, main browser, email client all running and visible on a 1280 19" monitor. I can't think of any circumstance where I would want any app running at full screen , most especially a web browser, I'm sitting 2 feet from the screen I wouldn't be able to see the corners of a browser full screen Smile

Maximising csscreator while posting this just feels really uncomfortable, staring at a lot of unused screen estate.

I would go as far as to say that they simply is not a single web page that actually benefits from this sort of size.

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thepineapplehead
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I don't like clutter on my

I don't like clutter on my screen. I could never imagine having several windows open at once, all at the same time.

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Hugo
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It's not clutter it's your

It's not clutter it's your working environment, once I get going I need to have the desktop laid out visually it helps to keep a frame of reference as to what I'm working on and with?

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thepineapplehead
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But then how do you switch

But then how do you switch focus between apps? Do you merely click one with the mouse, or alt+tab until you reach the right one?

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Hugo
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Either or really , if the

Either or really , if the mouse is in hand then it's just as fast, actually faster, to click on a part of the app window to restore focus or if on keyboard then alt+tab; difference is, in seeing them still, is that when I tab to browser to refresh changes and nufink happens a quick glance back to editor tells me I forgot to save the changes or conversely as I'm writing rulesets I like to be able to keep in view what I already have by way of layout and to what elements I'm making changes to without having to alt+tab just to remind myself that it was the margin I wanted to adjust next, it's a small point though.

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gary.turner
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Hugo is very smart - he agrees with me :)

You've pretty well described the way I work, Hugo. Another plus with multiple windows in view is side by side comparisons between browsers. I'm not anal about pixel perfection, but margin diffs (think IE's buggy margin collapsing), and unexpected container expansion (IE again), &c. are easier to spot when both browsers are in sight.

I also like to have reference material in view as I develop content.

What does need to be maximized?

Let's see, a large spreadsheet? Maybe. I am usually working on only a small area, so, no.

Word processor? Doesn't need to be any wider than the paper size you're working with.

Graphics? I don't know PS, but GIMP uses a separate window for each element, so they need to be only as large as the image. I'm not doing graphics for print, so the images are fairly small.

Text editor? 80 columns wide is all.

Games? I'll go with that. Smile

TPH, you're slowing yourself quite a bit by not taking advantage of your screen real estate.

cheers,

gary

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I'll certainly try it your

I'll certainly try it your way, see what happens Tongue

Although I hated using GIMP for that exact reason, I like all my toolbars etc in one place in one window Wink

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Chris..S
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You know, I think it may be

You know, I think it may be a generation thing. I suspect TPH has only worked with GUIs and then only with large screens. For us "more experienced" souls, 1280 x 1024 is a phenomenal amount of real estate. Heck that's more than 4 times more than the 640 x 480 I started with (and thats not going back to 25 x 80 Wink)

I see no real reason to make most applications bigger than I can comfortably scan left-right. The exceptions are:
- dreamweaver, but its not really full screen as the file pane is on the right and the search results are at the bottom.
- photoshop or fireworks, same deal, layer details are on the right.

With this new mac thing. I can stick a browser on its own desktop and spin the cube[*] to test in a different browser (move mouse pointer to screen edge and click). My workflow is different from kk5st's. I'll get a site working properly in FF. Then I'll fix it for IE. Then I'll check other browsers and other IE versions (if required). While FF may be pixel accurate to the design. Other browsers don't get checked to that accuracy. They are just scanned for obvious issues, like misalignments or excessive/insufficient spacing.

gary.turner
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TPH buys a ticket on the clue bus

thepineapplehead wrote:
I'll certainly try it your way, see what happens Tongue

I think you'll like it once you get used to it.

Quote:
Although I hated using GIMP for that exact reason, I like all my toolbars etc in one place in one window Wink

Any tool windows I have open are usually docked to the left. I close or minimize those that aren't in use in order to maximize the available space for the image windows (5, at the moment).

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

gary.turner
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Chris..S wrote:You know, I

Chris..S wrote:
You know, I think it may be a generation thing. I suspect TPH has only worked with GUIs and then only with large screens. For us "more experienced" souls, 1280 x 1024 is a phenomenal amount of real estate. Heck that's more than 4 times more than the 640 x 480 I started with (and thats not going back to 25 x 80 Wink)

Hell, I remember 40 columns

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

Chris..S
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kk5st wrote:

kk5st wrote:
<snip>
Not that different from mine. I benchmark to Firefox and fix IE on the fly. So many of IE's faults are fairly simple to fix, that I do a lot almost automagically out of habit as I write my css. I organize the css by context (mostly), so I want my fixes to be in the same area as the standard code. Since I code the css top-down, I have little in the way of unintended consequences.

That's the difference. For IE, I use conditional comments to include IE specific style sheets. My default inital setup has three, ie5.css, ie6.css and ie7.css. Mostly there is only a few lines in each, sometimes there will be nothing in one or two of them, enabling those to be removed.

For IE, normally, I take a look. Throw in a "div,ul,li {zoom:1}" take another look, curse if there is anything else that needs fixing (mostly there isn't), and then go through and put widths, heights or zooms in specific class rules.

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could you guys post a

could you guys post a screenshot of your working area? I really can't imagine having my browser and editor and email client opened without suffering from the smaller window sizes.. I'd like to see how you do it Smile

As a rule, I never touch anything more sophisticated and delicate than myself

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Assuming you're properly

Assuming you're properly configured for your screen size, that is, 96 pseudo px per inch on a PC, an 800px wide app is the same size no matter the screen resolution. The font sizes remain the same. The images remain the same.

The idea on the screen size is that the screen is your desktop. If you bought a bigger desk for your office, you wouldn't insist your stationer enlarge the paper sizes you use. No, you have more room to accommodate the tasks you do at your desk.

Here's a shrunken cap of my Win desktop. Screen size is 1280

AttachmentSize
desktop.jpg 82.67 KB

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

thepineapplehead
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Ack ack ack zomg

Ack ack ack zomg Shock

How can you possibly focus on one specific thing with all those other windows open, vying for your attention?

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Hugo
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thepineapplehead wrote:Ack

thepineapplehead wrote:
Ack ack ack zomg Shock

How can you possibly focus on one specific thing with all those other windows open, vying for your attention?

The trick is called concentration and anyway when did we not have to focus on more than one thing at a time in this business, it's called multitasking it's what our machines do all the time and often we have to as well! Smile

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gary.turner
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thepineapplehead wrote:Ack

thepineapplehead wrote:
Ack ack ack zomg Shock

How can you possibly focus on one specific thing with all those other windows open, vying for your attention?
The problem is that your Asperger's Disorder is being overwhelmed by your Attention Deficit Disorder.

Therapy may help. Or not. Laughing out loud

cheers,

gary

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.