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johanna0507
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I choose WP for my blog because it came out as the allround leader of the pack of all blog software comparisons. However I had very little background knowledge then (September).

Since then I have noticed that a few people seem quite critical and unimpressed by Wordpress.
Why precisely is this?

Apart from what you think is wrong with WP, also what do you think are its strong points?
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johanna0507
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oops, just realised this is

oops, just realised this is off the topic. Please feel free to move it! sorry about the inconvenience, don't know how to move a post.

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Moved to 'Off Topic' (it's a

Moved to 'Off Topic' (it's a Mods function)

WP has had a chequered history, in the early days there was a lot of criticism due to what was essentially slightly badly thought through scripting where it was impossible to find where html generated markup was actually coming from and where or what hooks were available, It's why separation of scripting from presentation etc is so important, early on whenever they were critical updates to perform (and they were coming almost weekly at one point) it generally meant that you had to remember all the different files that you had had to customize as all your work was essentially overwritten. As well as that the default layout provided was critically flawed and a number of people kept remarking on this fact and pleading for it to be fixed (not difficult)rather than constantly having to repeat the same advice on the support forum.

When the newer theme system was introduced things greatly improved, but there was still a lot of disent at the choice of the kubrick theme being included as the default.

There was also a great stink about a year ago when naughty link farming went on and basically brought the whole project into disgrace for a while.

One of the problems, as I have always seen things, is that it is too much a personal project of one person and who seems to make no bones about that , I don't think this is ever a great way for an open source project to be led, that and the fact that at times they were massive intelligent flame wars on the support forum which lost a lot of the more experienced people who fled to Textpattern or Drupal both of which are probably a tad better written. Having said that WP does work and works well so perhaps it's better not to focus on tha past , although I still notice issues with mixed code through the files and no one was ever that happy with markup beginning in one file and ending in another it's just too confusing.

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johanna0507
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Thanks for the summary

Thanks for the summary Hugo!

Yes, I have noticed that there are plenty of functions used, even in the 'theme user customisable' part of WP, that are very poorly documented. Sometimes it's a surprise what you get back from a function. Good to hear it's not my lack of skills that is causing me to find it a bit confusing.

Also, strangely, there are plenty of functions that do the same thing! Some info says 'use this function rather than that', then another piece of info (both on the WP site) says 'don't use this function, use that one...' Contradictory!

I see what you mean about the Open source status... Moderators on WP basically tell people 'hands-off' anything other than the theme files. I can't see why - surely it's up to the user if he breaks the app and has to re-install. I noticed that there are moderators who don't seem to be such good technical all-rounders.

It should be getting better though; the wiki style site is large and very active, even if missing a bit in structure and documnentation of some areas.

I remember choosing WP over Textpattern for some reason, but I can't recall Drupal being in the comparison chart.

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Drupal is very powerfull and

Drupal is very powerfull and I think to some extent better written from a class/template point of view but it also is a very different beast and much harder to get to grips with, and really you require a good degree of scripting knowledge to get it working for you.

Wordpress is definitely very usable and probably the easiest to use 'Out Of The Box' but that has never been what a lot of people wanted.
It is - like many CMS - slightly confusing to begin with when theming until you get a sense of the template script flow and that often seems to be an area difficult to clearly document without getting overly technical to begin with.

I long ago saw definite decline in the standard of the WP forum there was a lot of in-fighting and a lot of those that actually new what they were talking about moved on. I find the forum slightly cold now and have long since ceased to provide any help on themes. The wiki is a slight improvement on the documentation before. I was perusing the forum yesterday for a DB problem which many seem to be having yet little by way of 'resolved' threads showed up, and any help seemed rather standoffish.

Telling people hands off the core files is a sign that to some degree it's a closed source project to my mind, this is the opposite to Drupal although you don't want to really start changing certain core files that call DB functions etc. otherwise you may as well write a CMS yourself.

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Hugo wrote:I long ago saw

Hugo wrote:
I long ago saw definite decline in the standard of the WP forum there was a lot of in-fighting and a lot of those that actually new what they were talking about moved on.

I never found the WP forums useful enough to spend the time there to notice a decline in standards or activity.
So I guess from a downside point of view, maybe finding solutions to your problems isn't as easy with WP as it would be with other options.
Other than that, I like it fine though and it's what I use to run my site. Upgrading is a relatively easy process; I just have to remember that apart from my theme, I also need to retain one include file that I've modified slightly and the CSS for my admin theme which I've also changed.

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Since I am one who's made

Since I am one who's made disparaging remarks, maybe I should expand on them.

WP and other CMS applications suffer from the very things that make them so handy.

They are very powerful, able to do any number of things. That's a Good Thing

If your web page is as clever as you can make it, it's probably too clever for you to debug or maintain.

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I had a look at Drupal. I

I had a look at Drupal. I never got passed the look. The simple fact of having to create a whole suite of new file extensions to get code highlighting didn't get me started on the right foot.

With a lot of these packages, if you just want to use what is there, they are absolutely fine. If you want to customise them in ways that aren't quite intended, they are mostly a pita. Be prepared to spend a lot of time deciphering, decoding and working your way around.

You might want to take a look at some wiki software. Mostly, they are much easier to use than CMS. They do require a different syntax than HTML, but its pretty easy to use - no more complex than bbcode.

*shameless plug*
Personally, I'd recommend DokuWiki with Blog and Discussion plugins and a custom template. I've been contributing to it for the last couple of years and (somehow) the code is still neat, easy to follow and operational Wink Take a look at this site for an example of how it can look in blog form.

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Chris..S wrote:*shameless

Chris..S wrote:
*shameless plug*
Personally, I'd recommend DokuWiki with Blog and Discussion plugins and a custom template. I've been contributing to it for the last couple of years and (somehow) the code is still neat, easy to follow and operational Wink Take a look at this site for an example of how it can look in blog form.

I do like dokuwiki a lot. I haven't figured out the template yet but I like how it works as a wiki. I don't think I'll replace Wordpress with it but as a separate wiki site it works perfectly.

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I swear, Wordpress is

I swear, Wordpress is creating an extra div somewhere else in the app - somewhere far beyond my theme files. This div is not closed properly.

I have added up all the divs I have created and they add up, yet the extra div turns up in the "single posts with no comments" html page that is generated by mine/WPS code.

SOooo irritating since this prevents the page from validating, which triggers a bug like behaviour.

If I add the extra div, the 'single page WITH comments' doesn't validate because it has a div too many.... ! Oh joy!

(I guess there is a dirty fix which would involve an 'if' statement that closes the div if there are no comments - I hate this type of dirty fixes though! Particularly since i'd be administering the medicine without knowing what the illnes was)

I know there is no point in posting in the WP forum; I'd get put down a bit on behalf of something unrelated that is wrong in my theme, and very likely not get any useful advice.

(I am basing this cynical statement on previous experience there - tend to agree with Chris about the general state of things there, although on the whole I still like WP. I certainly couldn't make anything better myself, and after all it IS open souorce and the moderators are volounteers who do their best to help.)

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http://www.nucleuscms.org

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johanna0507 wrote:(I guess

johanna0507 wrote:
(I guess there is a dirty fix which would involve an 'if' statement that closes the div if there are no comments - I hate this type of dirty fixes though! Particularly since i'd be administering the medicine without knowing what the illnes was)

That's not a dirty fix, that's how the default page should work. It will depend where your opening divs are placed with respect to the comments conditional in single.php as to where they should be after the endif.

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Oh, that worked (I closed

Oh, that worked (I closed the div in the conditional statement - doh, I had forgotten it was conditional! )!
Better get on and finish that theme! Thanks for the tip!
(Do you know your avatar is a bit scary! What is it supposed to be?)

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Dokuwiki and Nucleus

Dokuwiki seems nice, but at a quick glance I get the feeling that you really have to know your stuff to use it. The (one) basic theme was very basic!

Nucleus turns me off because of the word CMS which is used to describe it.
CMS just makes me think of ugly business information portals - the last thing I want to be reminded of in my spare time, since I have project managed the development of a few. (Gosh do I need to get out of IT project management!!)
Also I don't think I've got enough to say online to need a CMS!

( PS - How nice it must be to have a web development company and make websites for a living. I have a long way to go, but a girl can dream Wink

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johanna0507 wrote:(Do you

johanna0507 wrote:
(Do you know your avatar is a bit scary! What is it supposed to be?)

It's from a wallpaper I found on a Finnish Hard NRG website once.

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Tyssen wrote:johanna0507

Tyssen wrote:
johanna0507 wrote:
(Do you know your avatar is a bit scary! What is it supposed to be?)

It's from a wallpaper I found on a Finnish Hard NRG website once.

What? I thought that was your picture!

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Ed Seedhouse wrote:Tyssen

Ed Seedhouse wrote:
Tyssen wrote:
johanna0507 wrote:
(Do you know your avatar is a bit scary! What is it supposed to be?)

It's from a wallpaper I found on a Finnish Hard NRG website once.

What? I thought that was your picture!

The horns look a bit like mine but that's as far as the similarity goes. Wink

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I'd just like to add..

I'd just like to add that although I really like WP and use it a lot for Clients' CMSs - I find the WordPress support forum very difficult to use.

It's very hard to find an answer to any given question without either incuring the wrath of an old-timer (Good god that question's been asked before! Are you an idiot!?!) or doing a daisy chain from one link in one answer to the next to the next in an increasingly fruitless search for the answer. It's hardly suprising that questions are asked again and again.

So my solution is either:

1. Shout loudly at the PC
2. Go away and have some chocolate
3. Pester Tyssen
4. All of the above

My strategy is so simple an idiot could have devised it!

"Also, your CSS (no offence) makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon" - TPH

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Haha - I guess I would

Haha - I guess I would normally go for Option 2 there....

But my new healthy diet-girl persona will take a deep breath, or a walk around the block!
Or perhaps I should try 2 Wink

Thanks for explaining about the avatar Tyssen!

(Personally I have no imagination - I use my own name and pic...

With the result that a girlfriend with TOO MUCH TIME on her hands tracked me around the internet (!!!) and made some snidy comments about my posts in forums alluding to me being a geek etc. Arrgh! Not that I have said anything particularly embarrassing
People who seriously googles their friends are creepy! )