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Lambinastormtro...
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After recently downloading IE7, I've discovered that my suckerfish menus don't work any more... they've just sort of disappeared.

Is there a hack for IE7 that will allow the suckerfish menus to work again?

http://www.digitalpawprint.com/caseytest/caseytest.html

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People must get out of the

People must get out of the habit of assuming that every time something doesn't work that they must require a hack, this is a very bad mentality to get in and wrong.

What have you tried so far to debug this problem lambsina...?

First thing I would try is look for every rule that I had filtered to IE6 only and unfilter it so that IE7 could read it as well and see if that makes any difference.

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Lambinastormtro...
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Hugo, I have no

Hugo,

I have no IE6-specific hacks. I have the Holly Hack, a hack for IE5.x mac only, and the following:

* html body { behavior: url(hover.htc); }

which is something I only recently learned about.

When you ask what I've tried so far to debug the problem, it seems to hint towards the suggestion that I haven't yet spent time trying to solve this myself. Please understand that,
1) I've spent enough time poking, prodding, playing with, and changing the code in hopes of figuring it out myself to lead me to the point where I realize I'm making zero progress and definitely need some help.
2) What might be terribly obvious to an experienced coder just cannot be assumed to be obvious to someone new.

Assuming that it might take a hack to fix the problem was clearly an ignorant assumption from a newbie. I feel suitably chastised. So seeing as it's not a new hack that I require, and I don't have any IE6-specific hacks to unfilter, could you shed some light on what else it could be?

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I mentioned the hacks as all

I mentioned the hacks as all too often one sees this belief that hacks solve all when in fact they are all too often not required or used mistakenly to correct errors brought about by lack of knowledge or just from being mislead in the belief that one must have hacks for layouts to work at all. It was not aimed specifically at you lambsina.. honest!

As for the request for debugging info this was genuinely as it helps to know what has been tried and what has not, it focuses the attention, remember that it is incumbent on the poster to provide as much detail as possible to help us, again this was not picking on you, honest Smile

So a little less umbrage taking please Smile oh and you are getting to the stage where you're becoming too long in the tooth to hide behind the 'Newbie' defence Smile

I'll look a bit closer but are you sure you tried letting IE7 see the height hack 1% you have on the anchor for IE6, just wondering probably not the answer, but if anything getting suckerfish to work for IE7 should be easier than for IE6.

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Lambinastormtro...
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In terms of the newbie

In terms of the newbie claim, there just seems to be so much to learn, and I'm constantly coming across info and explanations (and hacks) and things that are completely new to me. So I feel like such a newbie all the time. Plus, I don't think number of posts or the date that someone joined can allow someone to fairly assess their skill level... I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of this stuff and feel very overwhelmed a lot of the time. Nonetheless, your "long in the tooth" comment dragged a grin out of me and I vow to consider myself a newbie no longer. Wink

I ended up leaving the Holly Hack as is for now, since I'm not sure if I was even debugging it properly or not. Perhaps you could show me where and how you would display this info differently? I'm hoping its something as simple as this.

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Lambinastormtroopersuit

Lambinastormtroopersuit wrote:
In terms of the newbie claim, there just seems to be so much to learn, and I'm constantly coming across info and explanations (and hacks) and things that are completely new to me.

I'm constantly coming across IE's shortcomings, but as Hugo says you need to get out of the "hack" mentality and into one of "development" and "debugging".

If something doesn't work, don't immediately think "right, IE is wrong, I want a quick hack to fix it". You need to do some legwork yourself Laughing out loud Run through the code, read up on IE rendering differences, try test cases, look for other methods, etc.

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  • CSS doesn't make pies

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Sadly I don't think that it

Sadly I don't think that it is that simple as after a quick look at a local copy I cant see the problem, the holy hack can be replaced with display:inline-block if a hasLayout trigger is required and then the rulset repeated afterwards re-setting to display:block; to keep browsers like Opera happy.

Tis so true that we are all newbies really, so much to learn so little time, don't worry I feel just the same way, having spent the day feeling forced towards having to get to grips with Ajax which I nether want to nor like that much, I'm looking for that day I can relax and call myself an expert , in something.. anything really don't mind what just fancy being an expert, rat catching would do.

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Hugo wrote:Tis so true that

Hugo wrote:
Tis so true that we are all newbies really, so much to learn so little time, don't worry I feel just the same way, having spent the day feeling forced towards having to get to grips with Ajax which I nether want to nor like that much, I'm looking for that day I can relax and call myself an expert , in something.. anything really don't mind what just fancy being an expert, rat catching would do.

I know how you feel. I had to spend this morning trying to fix an ASP problem with Outlook Web Access. I neither like ASP or want to learn it (I love php, no idea why really, they're similar but different ways of writing it) and I have no idea what I'm doing, I just mash the code and hope for the best Laughing out loud

I'm much happier perusing the web, offering my advice to the new members (and some of us regs!) than actually having to do work Tongue

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

Lambinastormtro...
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Oh believe me ~ I always do

Oh believe me ~ I always do plenty of legwork before posting here! I consider the forum to be my last ditch effort... I ask for help when I'm 100% stumped. Sometimes the answer ends up being fairly simple... but that happens when you're still learning. I know that it takes time, knowledge, and experience to be able to pinpoint the problems and solutions.

So as it stands right now, it's a bit of a mystery to you guys as well? It'll be interesting to get Tyssen's input on this as well... he was fantastic with helping me learn the suckerfish technique, and it seems to be a bit of an area of specialty with him. I wonder what he makes of all this.

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Lambinastormtroopersuit

Lambinastormtroopersuit wrote:
Oh believe me ~ I always do plenty of legwork before posting here! I consider the forum to be my last ditch effort... I ask for help when I'm 100% stumped. Sometimes the answer ends up being fairly simple... but that happens when you're still learning.

We don't mind helping you with questions at all, it gives us something to do with our time Laughing out loud and I think we all like you (I especially love your name and ava!)

Don't feel bad about asking for help; there are times when I despair with IE and can't be bothered spending hours trying to figure it out, when I can post on here, get a member to pinpoint the exact problem, then away I go to do some reading!

Quote:
I know that it takes time, knowledge, and experience to be able to pinpoint the problems and solutions.

If only it were that simple. Being a guru/helper on here, and my job (IT Helpdesk) are very similar and very monotonous. Knowing the answer is a tiny bit of the problem, the first hurdle is getting the problem to a level that we can START helping - for example, posters with invalid CSS, HTML, no doctypes, dreamweaver problems, testing in IE - it's all hurdles that we as the learned HAVE to overcome before we can actually get down to the problem.

This is why it's frustrating providing support - you post all these FAQs and guidelines, to solve common problems and ensure people come to you with a problem you can start working on, and they STILL ignore the help provided.

It's the same at work. I've sent numerous emails out reminding staff about simple problems - the most common being a SIMS issue (don't ask), where the staff cannot login as a file is missing. The cause, 100% of the time, is a network issue - the wireless connection has dropped and the program cannot find a file. Every time I fix it I tell them it's a network issue, they need to log off and on again, and every time it does it they come asking for help.

Sorry to go off on a rant!

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  • CSS doesn't make pies

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Lambsina.. give this a go

Lambsina.. give this a go works for me in fact I usually state or restate display:block to be on the safe side.

.nav li:hover ul { left:0;display:block;}

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Quote:So as it stands right

Quote:
So as it stands right now, it's a bit of a mystery to you guys as well? {solved above} It'll be interesting to get Tyssen's input on this as well... he was fantastic with helping me learn the suckerfish technique, and it seems to be a bit of an area of specialty with him. I wonder what he makes of all this.

Although essentially suckerfish, somewhat of a variation, I doubt that Tyssen would claim it's a area of speciality as such, we all probably have constructed these types of menu countless times, but dont all necessarily write up tutorials on them.

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Hugo wrote:we all probably

Hugo wrote:
we all probably have constructed these types of menu countless times, but dont all necessarily write up tutorials on them.

I can honestly say I've only ever attempted a suckerfish once . . . and gave up. Too many nested uls and lis . . . did my head in!

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Once one has got ones head

Once one has got ones head wrapped around the concept they are easy enough, real problem is I don't really care for them much. Clicky open thingy lists or just static sub links per page. Trouble now is that were getting dragged back to a golden era of DHTML effects because of Ajax and that darn web 2.0 silliness, thought we had managed to progress beyond the dark days of DHTML *sigh*

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I must say, I like the

I must say, I like the lightbox-esque effects for images, instead of those god-awful popup windows. However, most of it is unnecessary and tacky - reminiscent of the 1990s popups, flashing text, scrolling banners, and 99% of the stuff on dynamicdrive.com

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Lambinastormtro...
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Hugo ~ you got it. Simple,

Hugo ~ you got it. Simple, and works. Thank you! I'm always grateful. Most importantly, I learned something.

Pineapplehead ~ thanks for your comments, much needed. You offer a good perspective on things. I also appreciate your comments on my name and ava ~ you can imagine what a fun few minutes I had slapping that ava together in Photoshop, from cutting out the helmet and lamb to picking the most obnoxious and retarded background colour I could find.

Both of you ~ As you both helped me a great deal today, (and many other days as well), I'm happy to say that I was able to do the same for someone else... convinced a (bonafide) newbie to put his table-structured site aside and start learning the good stuff. (see "Hvae problem with CSS" post) ~ I might not have explained things quite as well as someone more experienced, but at least he was successfully swayed from the dark side. Wink Mission accomplished. (and makes me feel less like a newbie) Laughing out loud

Oh and by the way... check this out, regarding IE7 and the Holly Hack... I still need to read through it completely but thought I should mention it since I just located it: http://www.positioniseverything.net/

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I noticed the thread and tis

I noticed the thread and tis a good thing and what forums should be about. As you gain knowledge and experience you may find yourself in a position to help others thus the circle is complete and good karma and other stuff is abound.. well something like that.

Quote:

Oh and by the way... check this out, regarding IE7 and the Holly Hack... I still need to read through it completely but thought I should mention it since I just located it: http://www.positioniseverything.net/

yep , it may have got lost amongst the posts but look back and see where I mentioned using display:inline-block instead of the holly hack height filter. IE7 still needs to clear floats yet now observes proper height so 1% would be just that 1% like real modern browsers, however where it needs hasLayout which in IE triggers float clearing you can use display:inline-block which essentially all browsers will cope with.

Hugo.

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