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LethaL
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What about compiling a list of css attributes and listing what browsers work with those attributes I have only found ones for like IEMac, Netscape, and IE. But there are other browsers...i am not a writer but could posibly help compile the list of attributes and such?

co2
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I too think this would be a good idea. Particularly as a reference point for this site's discussions. The logistics of such a thing would have to be pretty tight though. Perhaps a couple of sections of tables (ah! did I say tables Laughing out loud ) with browser cross-referencing and comments from the learned members of this site (and links to fixes/hacks etc.) Wink

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Tony
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Hi LethaL,
Thats an excellent idea.
Firstly we would need to collect a list of Browser/platform combinations that would be displayed, I don't think we need every combination but lets get as many different combinations as we can.

Then we need to decide how to display it.
Co2s idea of multiple tables is an obvious choice but I believe the table would become very large as we would need to provide a description of the css attributes and valid values as well as other information and make it easily updateable when new browsers are released.

Another option would be to have it database driven and show allow users to select what they are looking for and refine the list of browsers or what results are displayed.

There may be other options.
I would also like where possible, to show the current browser results via a simple test.

Any other ideas would be welcome.

co2
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The possibilities of this idea are so good it's stuck in my <head> now (had to get that geeky pun in Wink )

I agree Tony, the tables would get pretty heavy. But, since we are seemingly in an ideas stage at present Tongue I'm sure we can think of something (and then end up back at tables :-# )

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Hi co2,
Yes what ever we do it will most likely be displayed in tables as it is tabular data.
I am just trying to think of a way to make it most user friendly and easy to maintain.
I did a large table of DOM attributes once not long ago I can't remember where it is now and I never really finished it off.

co2
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I suppose a paged sort of site could work (i.e. more akin to current CSS books, with the declarations in alphabetical order, with a short description etc. for each one). You would then only need a table for the compatibilty part (which would appear next to each declaration... a mini table of sorts).

I guess the easiest way to express these ideas is by example. Wink

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I like the database idea. Even if its just used to store the information. It would be easy to edit and let users access with whatever means we come up with to display the information.

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OK, this is how I now see it.
I will create the database and forms to add content and pages to display the content.
All members of the CSS Forum will have access to add content, and we will need help as there is a fair amount to add.
All visitors to the web will be able to access the and use content.

There will be a list of CSS attributes and each of those will display on its own page with a description an example a list of valid values, when it became part of the CSS standard (CSS1, CSS2, CSS3 etc) and comments by users. There will also be a list of browsers which have been tested and a value to show how well it supports the attribute. (fully, partial, None).
we will be able to add new browsers and attributes as needed and edit any of the content.

It should be very useful as long as people get involved and help add content.

co2
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Sounds good to me...

Yep, one per page sounds simple and easy enough to manage. Saves on dreaming up some sort of convoluted page design just to cram many attributes into a single page.

I'm ready and willing to help out (just got to get this week over and done with!)

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Great, that will give me the weekend to get something set up.
Should be an interesting project. Cool

LethaL
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maybe for people with alot of time (not me) maybe a little scrren shot of what a style looks like when it is not supported? I know that there are alot of people like myself that learn best wih visuals. Is this too much to fast?

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Eric Meyer has a chart here ~

http://devedge.netscape.com/library/xref/2003/css-support/

A little out of date but could be useful as a guide.

It's not what you do it's the way that you do it.
So do it with STYLE
http://www.s7u.co.uk

co2
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Ah, that was the one I was trying to find again.

Don't know about anyone else, but I would envisage a more textual-collation-based structure. As mentioned, not only the cross-referenced detail as E Meyer's site shows (perhaps less detail), but also examples, links, comments.

Tony's idea of a page per rule I think will fit this very well... allowing for easy expansion should it be needed.

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Hi all,
I have got the basic shell set up and now need to add the content,
Things like the description for each property and the browsers that support it.

To add or change content you first need to be logged into the CSS Forum.
Then the main content can be edited by clicking on the "Edit this Page" button.
That will take you to a form which will allow you to edit the Description of the property, the valid Values, the Default Value, an Example, which html elements it applies to, the version of CSS.
Any of the fields can be left blank, so if you are unsure leave it out or as it was.

To add the level of support by a particular browser there is another simple form which you select the platform:Browser from one select field and the level of support from another.

I may add a form that allows you to add more then one at a time and another that lets you add the support for a particular browser to all the properties at once.

There is also a comment form where users can make comments on the property.

http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/

There is much more to do but this should be a good start.

We need a full list of browser

Things to be added later:
pseudo-classes,
@rules,

We also need a more complete list of Browsers, which versions of Netscape, Mozilla, Opera and which Linux and Mac browsers should be added.

Let me know what else needs to be added or what should be changed.

Please understand that this is still very much under construction and I will be making changes. :idea:

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Woops I did this up a little quickly and while everything was working fine in Firefox, I had only tested how it displayed in IE not while logged in to use the forms.
I had a go this morning at work with IE6 and it crashed my browser twice. :oops:
I have since fixed the problem and don't think it will crash any browsers so hopefully it's safe now to have a look.

All forms are now using DL "Definition Lists" as part of the markup.

I have added a form that allows you to enter multiple browsers for a property.
http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/

More work is still to be done and lots of content required.

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It's great!

Just started having a go... inputted into the float and font pages. The page layout went a bit off after I'd inputted the example text. I presume it's a float situation.

Will start inputting whe work subsides within the next few days!

Love the mini-selector window to the right.

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Thanks co2,
Just let me know what other browsers we should list and anything else we should add.
I will be playing around with how it looks over the next couple of days when time is available.

LethaL
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wow this has really goten off the ground! man see what happens when I take a weekend off??? I wonder if I took a week off my basement would be cleaned...

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Hi LethaL,
When I see an idea I like, I run with it Laughing out loud

There's still much to do, mainly adding content and a tidying up a bit.

Let me know of any ideas you have to improve it.

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Here's an update.
I've added test pages to most of the properties, so you can test them in your browsers easily.

We still need to expand the list of Browsers, so if you would like to see your favorite browser on the list let me know.

So far we have:
Mac IE5
Mac Safari (do we need different versions)
Win Firefox 0.8
Win IE4
Win IE5
Win IE5.5
Win IE6
Win NN4
Win NN6
Win NN7
Win Opera6
Win Opera7

Most of these I can test in, if you have some other browser that you test in post them here.

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To kill two stones with one bird, could we tie-up the current Mozillas and Firefoxs) to Mac, Win, and Linux? They seem to render the same across platforms.

I'd tentatively vouch for this, but would have to do tests.

As for Safari, being picky, yes, different versions would be needed. The current version 1.2.x will only work in Panther (OS X 10.3). Pre-10.3 use 1 and 1.1 (I think). They do have different CSS abilities (and bugs) between them. I'd tend to state Safari 1.2. If any demand is gauged for previous versions then reconsider.

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Just added a comment to the border-style attribute...

The paragraph is a bit messed up (in Firefox at least).

Also, would be nice to be able to categorise Comments as bugs etc.?

Smile

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Hi co2,
Good ideas.
I will change the comments form to allow a selection of comment type sometime over the next couple of days.
I really like the idea tie-up the Moz based browsers, I just need to work out how to display them in a meaningful way.

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I suppose any inconsistencies between different system versions of Moz/Firefox can be expressed in the comments?

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Are you suggesting combining Moz, firefox, Netscape and all the other Moz based browsers and I think there's many of them, or just the ones straight from Moz such as Moz and Firefox, camino.

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No not really. I mean (as an example):

Mozilla 1.7 (Win, Mac, Linux)
Mozilla 1.6 (Win, Mac, Linux)
Mozilla 1.x (Win, Mac, Linux)
Firefox (Win, Mac, Linux)
Netscape 7 (Win, Mac, Linux)

etc etc...

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Hi co2,
Excellent, now I know what you meant.

I will make the changes to the Browsers and add the field to the comments.

Any suggestions on what types of comments to have?

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How about:

-- Bugs
-- Hacks (Hmmm, not sure if these first two should be together)
-- Links (input a tutorial/example/site link concerning the attribute)

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Hi co2,
I've gone with:
Browser Bugs
Hacks and Fixes
General Notes
Links
for the types of comments.

It's up now and I added your comment to browser bugs.

Still have to fix the list of browsers but I should get onto that after dinner.
Keep the suggestions coming, this thing just seems to get better and better.

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Very nice. Smile

How about Comment headings as well?

The reason I was wondering about the Bugs/Hacks being together... a hack generally follows from a particular bug, so, whilst listing a bug, you'd have to list the hack further down in the hacks (unless the comments from each category are all together).

Anyhow, I've just added two comments to the border-style attribute, but they haven't shown up.

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Hi co2,
I was too hungry to concentrate :oops:
You can now add comments, I had forgotten to change the insert script amongst other things.

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Works fine now Smile

Can 'we' Wink parse the links in the text though? (See the border-style attribute).

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Hi Tony

Maybe you should start thinking about publicising the attributes section to the forum, in order to get some help populating the content?

Wink

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Hi co2,
At the moment I have a few other things to concentrate on.
Then I shall put some effort into adding more content and cleaning it up a little.

I will be giving a presentation to the web standards group tomorrow night and may be able to get a few of them interested in helping out.

Google seems to have already picked up on it, so it would be good to get the content finished ASAP.

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Good luck with the presentation Smile I've been subscribed to WSG for a while now. Very good list indeed.

There are plenty of experienced developers on there that should be able to help out.

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Thanks co2,
It should be an interesting night.

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Yeh, watch out for the miltant 'Nested Table Extremists', they're planning some sort of counter-strike. 8-[

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Hi co2,
If you are trying to calm my nerves it's not working Smile

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Ah don't worry, just offer to pay for everyone's drink on the night, you'll have a very attentive audience then Wink

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Just added a bit more content to the attributes.

Nice browser logos Wink

It's starting to build up nicely now. Smile Laughing out loud

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It just keeps getting better and better.
There's so much we can do with this once we refine the content.
I think we should add descriptions of selectors and things like color and size values.
But have a look at the latest table of browser support http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/index2.php
still needs some work but it's coming along nicely.

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Looking good!

It's a bit heavy loading Safari, but this is obviously a problem with Safari. I checked in Moz 1.7 OS X and it whizzed down.

Will add more content today. Wink

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