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ricoschette
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Hi,
(EDITED: 23.03.2006)

Working on this website and I was wondering how it looks viewed from old browsers.
I have IE5.5 and of course the content is aligned left... is there an easy way to center it?
I don't want to use many hacks (not at all actually), but if necessary... I will.
I checked the online Safari browser as well and it's ok. Don't know about the behavior of older MacOS though. Who has one, let me know how bad is it.

Don't mind the photos, they are from net and I will replace them with original ones as soon my client decides to do them.

And I know that the header navigation doesn't work in older browsers as well. But then again, it's not really a problem as people get new computers every day.

I am thinking about making the front page more interesting as well. Any suggestions are welcomed.

So fire away.

thepineapplehead
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Niiiiiiiiiice Laughing out loud I like it a lot. I'm not too keen on the highlights (the brownish background) but overall a very nice laid out site.

The link "read how you can do that" could do with an underline, it's a bit hard to notice it's a link - it looks like just different colored text.

Verschwindende wrote:
  • CSS doesn't make pies

ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

tnx, I was myself thinking about changing the header background into more redish.
I believe if it's color is more burgundy red it gives some contrast and color to the website.

Yes, links should be better.
Can't do it at the moment, because the sun outside is so bright that I can't see correct colors on my screen Laughing out loud (spring is coming)

Anonymous
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

I'm not sure hiding the menu is a good idea but it looks good.

ragamuffin
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Triumph wrote:
I'm not sure hiding the menu is a good idea but it looks good.

I agree with Triumph.

- r

ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

About the header...
I have seen several websites, like Shaun Inman's, that use this hiding feature to hide/reveal greater amount of text and stuff...
So if there's a necessity to put in this section extra div or expand smth, it can easily be done.
Or if you want the header part to look absolutely different and maybe out-of-the-context or insane, so it can be hidden and no worries about disturbing visitor's eyes Wink

I understand, you ask why to hide a menu :? right...
Well, there's no particular reason, but why not.

Anonymous
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

ricoschette wrote:
Well, there's no particular reason, but why not.
  • I for one don't like having to figure out how to use a web page. I'd rather just skip the whole experience.
  • There are some people that just don't have the smarts to know how things like this works.
  • There are some that don't use a mouse to navigate. Have you made this accessible to them?
  • Don't make the end user think, if they have to they will probably leave.
  • Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[/]
ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Triumph wrote:
  • I for one don't like having to figure out how to use a web page. I'd rather just skip the whole experience.
  • There are some people that just don't have the smarts to know how things like this works.
  • There are some that don't use a mouse to navigate. Have you made this accessible to them?
  • Don't make the end user think, if they have to they will probably leave.
  • Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Well, yes, there's definitely an accessibility question.
I have the nav doubled in footer for those who can't for some reason access the main navigation.
Now, thinking about the users of keyboard only... hmmm

I will for sure add accesskeys for both navigation and language selectors.

[/]
tecniche
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Re: New website... any suggestions welcomed

Hi to one and all. First post!

ricoschette wrote:

I have IE5.5 and of course the content is aligned left... is there an easy way to center it?

In the CSS, center the #container-wrap using absolute positioning then adjust margin-left by half of the width of #container-wrap.

That is, if #container-wrap is 800px wide and needs to be 200px from the top to allow for the header then:

#container-wrap {
	position: absolute;
	top: 200px; left:50%;
	margin-left: -400px;
             }

Do this for all <div>s to be centered or warp the lot in a centering div and align this. This will center in all browsers, but won't work in elastic designs as (AFAIK) you can't set margin-left as a percentage in this case.

Quote:

And I know that the header navigation doesn't work in older browsers as well. But then again, it's not really a problem as people get new computers every day.

Hmm. Bit of a dangerous assumption here, how about surfers using the latest in speaking browsers? Also I surf with JavaScript off so your menu doesn't work at all. I love the site but I hate the hidden navigation.

I'm with Triumph on this. When I go to a site with "mystery-meat-navigation" I move on PDQ which would be a shame in this case as the site is nice.

Hope this helps.

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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Quote:
I'm with Triumph on this. When I go to a site with "mystery-meat-navigation" I move on PDQ which would be a shame in this case as the site is nice.

I didn't even see the navigation until someone pointed it out in a message. Sorry, but it's just silly and will only drive people away from an otherwise decent looking site. What were you thinking?

Ed Seedhouse

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ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

these are pretty strong words, guys.
yeah, damn it, and I thought this navigation spices things little up... oh well, I will ask my client whether he wants it gone or not.
I just don't want to let it go... Sad

I will try the positioning thing out tonight.

Anonymous
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

ricoschette wrote:
these are pretty strong words, guys.
Yeah, sometimes there are some here that get a bit overzealous. They are trying to help though. Smile

Let's try to be a bit more tactful, ok? Smile

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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Hello. Interesting typeface selection you have there, very nice! Laughing out loud
Hehehe, I just discovered your wonderful navigation thingie. For lack of a better adjective, I think it's way cool! Cheers!

Wait... wait... I have an idea regarding your cool navigation. Why not configure your CSS so that it's visible by default and just let the script change all the needed style definitions if the script is allowed to load?

I am a Man of Truth.
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I am a Peacemaker.

http://www.abcruz.com

Lorraine
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Hiya
Didn't realize you were Papilion Desain (sorry :oops: but at least I've had you bookmarked for a while)
This site is as original and as good as the others. The link technique may be a bit err... quirky but, if your client likes it, as you say, "Why not?". Perhaps you oversold him on the idea in the first place Wink

Lorraine
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

How remiss of me? - accessibility has been mentioned Smile
Please, please don't start putting in access keys, just as the accessibility folk are discarding them.
You already have skip to navigation and skip to content in there, but they (and the other links) merely need focus styling for keyboard users. Not too sure how the skip links find themselves within <h1></h1> though :?

ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

actually I haven't had started even to think about the accessibility questions yet.
Work and new projects just growing over my head...

But, please tell me more about accessibility issues. What points you would bring up as most important.

thepineapplehead
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Make the text resizable, and don't use accesskeys Laughing out loud

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Lorraine
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Thank you TPH, that's it in a nutshell for a very small umm... peanut Smile

@ricoshette

You already have various accessibility features in some of your sites. They just need a bit of refining. Whilst it is important (well I would say that wouldn't I?), it is not easy to retro-fit accessibility features into a fully developed site - much better to design them in from the start.

I cannot find references to Disability Discrimination law that relates specifically to websites in your part of the world. So, the matter may not be too urgent for you until or unless the countries of residence of your clients adopt the EU Directives or their own law. The law in the UK basically follows the EU Directive (the US and Australia have some subtle and some not so subtle differences). Full/complete adoption cannot be assumed in all EU countries.

However, for accessibility in a "coconut shell" you could think about these features in future designs:

Give all links a:focus styling, tucked into your other link styles thus: a (or a:link), a:visited, a:focus, a:hover, a:active. Sadly for lte IE6 purposes you will also need * html a:active, because it doesn't recognize a:focus. I don't know what IE7 will do eventually. The focus is for keyboard users and is activated by them using the TAB key. Choose these styles so that the links show up well - often the standard dotted marquee around link text, where there is no focus styling, is not readily discernible in many designs.

Inman's show/hide technique degrades well when Javascript is turned off (surprising how many people do that and, thus, also ruin your lovely sIFR stuff Evil ) but then the open/close link does not work and may cause confusion. Can you cover that open/close link with Javascript so that it does not show at all with Javascript turned off? OR... as your nav bar links are not visible with Javascript on and need a re-think for accessibility purposes, you might be able to combine your existing technique with some elements of this technique just in terms of opening/closing the nav bar.

Skip links are also necessary for keyboard users, but yours are not visible on focus. There are many techniques on how to do this, some the subject of heated debate, but the easiest to fit into your design would be to keep them "hidden" for sighted visitors and make them visible on focus - at the very top of the screen - normally only ever seen by people who need to use the keyboard.

There is an accessibility problem with the way you are "hiding" them, however, as screen-readers see/speak visibility:hidden and display:none differently. Most screen readers do nothing at all with both of them and I believe search engines are very suspicious of "hidden" text. This chap places skip links off the screen (still accessible to screen-readers) then brings them back into view on a:focus. OK they're not pretty, but you have the ability to make them look far more sophisticated. Wink

ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

Lorraine, can't thank you enough Smile
I will follow your advice.

My country, Estonia, is in EU... but I don't know about the discrimination laws in here. I guess no-one ever heard about them Wink

Back to work.

ricoschette
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New website... any suggestions welcomed

made some changes.
still much work to do...

I think the front page "Start here..." and casestory section should be more fascinating. It's too bland right now and it doesn't work right at FF and Opera when resizing text. Check out.
I will redesign and recode that section.

ricoschette
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I don't get it...

There's some kind of an issue in IE6 with displaying clients' logos...
http://www.linkama.com/clients.htm
These images won't load at first, but when you resume to any client's link...and come back, all the logos are displayed.

That kind of behavior wasn't present when I had this website on my server. Then all the images were loaded...

What could be causing this?