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MikeySama
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Hello, Me again.

As some of you know i made a website for a school project. But in the end it wasn't good enough. It didn't show enough freedom( it had to show that ) and not a great design.

The old is here: http://stud.cmd.hro.nl/0775280/index2.html

I remade it with freedom in mind and what it meant to me, and then i started sketching, and then worked it out in the comp. I am really thinking it's the best site i've made so far...

The New: http://stud.cmd.hro.nl/0775280/test/

The dropdowns were made with the suckerfish method, however i can't speak for the browsers Safari and Opera. Keeping fingers crossed there... in any case for the project IE and Firefox were the browsers it had to work on... but i like to think beyond just the terms in the project.

In any case... I think it's a major step forward, but the only comments i get from my teachers is criticism... It is beyond me, how i could fail with the latter website. Oh well, opinions welcome. I can honestly say however that the constant whining from teachers has really made my motivation for this project hit an all-time low.

Thanks in Advance
Mike

P.S. There is some dutch in the sites, but it doesn't matter too much. In the latter websites the pulldowns happen at Jaar 1, Jaar 2, Jaar 3 and Jaar 4.

P.S2 For some odd reason it won't validate when doing an online validation of the CSS. I dont have this problem when i upload the css however... Strange..

Anonymous
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Re: New Website Again...

MikeySama wrote:
P.S2 For some odd reason it won't validate when doing an online validation of the CSS. I dont have this problem when i upload the css however... Strange..

	<script type="text/javascript"src="styles/javascript.js"></script>	

Try putting a space before the src attribute. Line 7 in your markup.

Your suckerfish dropdown is broken in safari because there is a space between the rollover and the dropdowns. The space is large enough to allow the dropdown to shut off before you can get the mouse to it. You need to close the gap between the roll over and the drop down.

MikeySama
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Re: New Website Again...

Triumph wrote:
MikeySama wrote:
P.S2 For some odd reason it won't validate when doing an online validation of the CSS. I dont have this problem when i upload the css however... Strange..

	<script type="text/javascript"src="styles/javascript.js"></script>	

Try putting a space before the src attribute. Line 7 in your markup.

Your suckerfish dropdown is broken in safari because there is a space between the rollover and the dropdowns. The space is large enough to allow the dropdown to shut off before you can get the mouse to it. You need to close the gap between the roll over and the drop down.

Could, You perhaps elaborate on a method of fixing this? I can't really see it, or test it myself. So, it's hard to start...

But uhm, your overal opinion on the website?

Edit: I'm thinking it's the margin-top that i'm using in the li.dropdown bit. Perhaps, safari placed the menu correctly already and didn't need those 5 pixels to push it down. Which firefox and IE did need...

Hugo
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New Website Again...

Well it's not half bad, so I wouldn't worry too much about the teachers criticism, it is their job to to push you to obtain greater heights so you should expect and welcome positive criticism, I hope that they did balance it with some praise for improving on your previous efforts. What specifically were they criticizing you on? it may be perfectly valid, let us know some of their thoughts and we can help put them into perspective for you.

I would consider some finer points with the layout, you should really place the header graphic as a background image and then use heading tags to supply textual information important from both accessibility point of views as well as search engines, look at the page in text mode without any styling.

You could have provided a skip link to allow jumping straight to the content or better still have employed source ordering of your main elements so that content came before links., and I would centre the page, why is it off to the left ?

The validation problem is likely due to the lack of space between attributes in your script tag.

Hugo

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MikeySama
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New Website Again...

The criticism i got were the following... they really said nothing positive to me. And honestly that kills your motivation..

1: I have to scroll down more than on the previous site.... and seriously that was it.

2: I don't like the picture of yourself.

There is nothing valid about that criticism, and doesn't help me in the least bit -_-; I don't mind criticism at all... but for fracks sake O_o;
I'm being told by a teacher that doesn't know what html means...

My only good teacher said that i should make the banner a lil smaller, which i did. It was a good point that i could agree on. But other then that he found it ok. ( It was larger at first )

Anyhow, reason i put it to the left.. was because i found it looking nicer then having it in the middle. Personal preference i guess.. i just liked it better. It just looked wrong when placed in the middle
----

Really, though it pisses me off a lot that the people i help in my class. Copy my techniques, and every new thing i learn. ( Like the use of display: block; ) and other things. Some, copied my old website to the letter and then replaced it with more graphics... How i know? Well, all the div layers looked the same, and were named the same.

They get no criticism at all... i was sitting right next to the guy and all his mail read was.. Looking good, nice progress...

And i get the 2 points at the top pointed out to me, and not one word about the effort i made to improve myself. Or if it got better or not...

I know i am not an expert yet... I'm learning, and each time try to improve myself in technique, in design... If they can't see it, maybe this isn't the right school for me.

Lorraine
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New Website Again...

Mike
For what it's worth, I think your second design is much better than the first as you are using more advanced techniques - good for you!

Visual aspects are always subjective, but if I can be a bit picky.

1) I feel the body text sits too tightly in its container and it could benefit from a little more left and right padding.

2) If anyone increases the text, your top menu breaks. You *should* aim for at least 2 increases in Fx and IE's largest size before breaking any part of the layout.

3) This really is picky but you come across as some one who wants to do the best job he can. Hover over the Year numbers and critically examine the Season boxes - maybe their width could be tweaked to match the width of the Years? what do you think?

The more successful you become at anything you do, the more you can expect to be emulated, copied or just plain ripped-off. Try not to let it annoy or frustrate you, see it as proof that you are on the right track. That's teachers for you - some don't seem to be able to recognize plagiarism in written exams, so to realize it is your coding that is being ripped-off by other is probably well beyond them. Particularly if, as you say, one of them doesn't know what html means :roll: Who was s/he the wood-working teacher? Wink

I suppose it's too much for you to ask them to actually demonstrate what is wrong with your work - who knows? the one who didn't like scrolling further may not be able to use a mouse properly. I mean that as a serious point - not that s/he is useless at it.

I can't comment on whether it is the right school for you, but your teachers are not alone in their ignorance - just try many of the schools in the UK - IT teaching is absolutely hopeless. Many of our IT teachers have had no formal IT training and seem to have been forced into taking classes just because they were the only member of staff with a home computer Tongue

MikeySama
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New Website Again...

I know what you mean lorraine. The things you mentioned, are things i will look at and i have noticed them, and i will fix them...

But you know... my teachers want me get their feedback first... and before i start tweaking out the last bits, and adding all of the content... i just wanna get a clear OK, mike it looks good...

I did all that in the last website and in the end they said... yah do it over. So, i'm not about to fall for that one again...

Hope you can understand... Cause i will get this thing perfect in the end by the pixel... as soon as i get an ok -_-

Edit: Ah well, fixed all that now too. Works on IE and FF. Also, know what you mean with them teachers... but this was highly respected school over here in the netherlands... Thought, they'd at least know their html... >_>

Anonymous
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Re: New Website Again...

MikeySama wrote:
Could, You perhaps elaborate on a method of fixing this? I can't really see it, or test it myself..
You didn't fix the first thing so what's the point of going on to the second?

MikeySama
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Re: New Website Again...

Triumph wrote:
MikeySama wrote:
Could, You perhaps elaborate on a method of fixing this? I can't really see it, or test it myself..
You didn't fix the first thing so what's the point of going on to the second?

I would say the second is a much more important one... seeing as the first one got fixed with a simple hit of the spacebar O.o? So, that's why i'd rather fix the more important one...
and it is fixed i tested it on my own webserver, didn't upload that one yet...

Edit: Hugo, i also took in consideration your idea of making the banner a background image. I can clearly understand your motives behind that now... it has it's advantages...

Hugo
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New Website Again...

One thing I would say about teaching or offering criticism and that is one should make dam sure one can do better, so maybe you should ask your teachers to demonstrate by example.

Regarding the niggling remark about the scrolling aspect other than Lorrain's valid point that there may be a physical impairment involved (although I think not) A web page is designed to scroll, to say it's wrong to do so or to find fault with such is just plain dumb and you should ignore such comments as they sound like they are being said by someone who is not really clued up on the medium. Horizontal scrolling is a bad thing only forgivable at very low resolutions, vertical scrolling is expected within reason otherwise one is continually having to click links for the next page, there are some tutorial sites that keep within a very tight height after you have read about a dozen lines you have to link to the next page, very irritating and it breaks the flow of the reading, it's easier to find the 'down key' than to have to keep finding a link.

Re the menu some little embellishments would help it along , center the link text; text-align:center on the #navhor and why don't you make the #navhor anchor display:block height:100% and add some height to the li elements then you can have a full hoverable region also a subtle background change on hover of the li ul a would help give things a slight gloss.

It's little detail that sets things off with design, with nav menus it looks good if one gets away from the default look of anchor text and it's with a background on hover you could loose the text underline on hover.

One last thought on those teachers; what have you done to upset them? Smile

Hugo

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ABCruz
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New Website Again...

Hugo wrote:
One thing I would say about teaching or offering criticism and that is one should make dam sure one can do better, so maybe you should ask your teachers to demonstrate by example.

I was lurking until I saw this and I couldn't help but log on if only to agree with it. There's a saying "those who can, do; those who cannot, teach."

Mikey: You have a good page and I guess Lorraine's said it for me already. But just a few more things regarding the corners: look at the top-left portion of the page-- I think since you moved the elements from middle to left you should make that corner un-rounded. Also the corner at the top-right. Then, since you won't be having those rounded corners, may make the bottom of the "Latest Dates" into an angle instead of an arc just so it fits better with the angle separating the grass-sky-eagle graphic from "0775..."

Cheers! Good luck with this one. Laughing out loud

I am a Man of Truth.
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http://www.abcruz.com

MikeySama
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New Website Again...

Hugo: Well... I may have called this one a hypocrite fool that doesn't know it's h from html...

Now if he heard that... it might explain a few things.... *Inner Mike: Oops?* and no.. no physical impairment...

ABcruz: You did bring me some ideas for that graphic... It would make sense if the top left was not rounded... thanks.

There is still minor things i can do with the site, and i will of course. But honestly, i'm currently contemplating my future in the whole web design world... I really love doing it, but i just wonder if i even have a future in it O_o;

Edit:

I'm reading through the following books btw to learn more... Maybe some of you know them:

In ORder:

Bulletproof Web design
John Wiley and Son - 250 html web design secrets ( It looked very interesting )
New Riders - Stylin' with css