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tracyberna
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Never mind. Flamed within 20 seconds of posting a question. Gotta be a new record. Nice welcome to the newbie, dude.

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drhowarddrfine
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Cobbled together is right. This is not a valid page. You are missing html and body tags and who knows what else.

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tracyberna
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Yes, I did say "cobbled" together. It was an experiment and I was just kind of goofing with it. Thank you for pointing out what I did wrong.

(I'm not quite as grateful to you for your tone, evidently aimed making me feel like the world's biggest schmuck just for having the gall to ask, but never fear, your geek superiority is uncontested.)

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I've had a look at your code and that provided in the westdiv example, and I can't find anything you've done differently (apart from use a <ul> instead).
Interestingly enough, the westdiv example doesn't have a doctype either, so it's questionable how well it would work in all browsers anyway.
This may not be exactly what you're looking for (it does involve javascript), but you might want to check out DOM tooltip.

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tracyberna
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Thanks Tyssen. I'll check it out. Smile

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Actually, I found another tutorial which looks very similar to the one you're using at the moment but this one looks the same in FF & IE and it also has a tutorial on doing the same for images (and it's by Eric Meyer who's an acknowledged leader in the field):
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html

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Re: this post deleted.

tracyberna wrote:
Never mind. Flamed within 20 seconds of posting a question. Gotta be a new record. Nice welcome to the newbie, dude.
I don't think it was flaming ... pointing out errors is kinda what we do. It helps in the long run. Honest. Smile

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Now now children, be nice Evil

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drhowarddrfine
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When someone posts code that had no understanding of how a web page is supposed to be coded and obviously cut and paste of other things (and it was) I could have gotten a lot nastier.

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Tyssen wrote:
I've had a look at your code and that provided in the westdiv example, and I can't find anything you've done differently (apart from use a <ul> instead).
Interestingly enough, the westdiv example doesn't have a doctype either, so it's questionable how well it would work in all browsers anyway.
This may not be exactly what you're looking for (it does involve javascript), but you might want to check out DOM tooltip.

Hi

I have an updated (not released) version of DOM Tooltip, which suppoorts Opera and Safari better.

Trevor

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drhowarddrfine wrote:
When someone posts code that had no understanding of how a web page is supposed to be coded and obviously cut and paste of other things (and it was) I could have gotten a lot nastier.

The page I looked at was fine (correct doctype etc.) and if the page was in such a mess, I doubt the OP could've made all the changes in the time from your post to when I looked at it.

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drhowarddrfine
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Half an hour? Sure she could. I didn't look at it wrong.

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tracyberna
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a bit of :oops:

Guys, I reacted a little emotionally last night, and I would like to make things better, if I can, and to apologize for acting on emotion. In my other areas of endeavor I'm a lot more bulletproof when it comes to feedback. When it comes to coding, I'm way more uncertain and easily embarrassed.

But I still do think I had a point.

Obviously yes, I did leave out some codes at the top of my page, which were fixable in about two seconds. I'm not disputing that. What I mostly objected to was the first reply's complete, instantaneous dismissal of my entire worth as a coder because of a couple of oversights, without any consideration of context. I didn't come on here asking "HEY GUYS WLD U PUT MY SITE 2GETHR 4 ME K THX BYE!!!!1!!! <3 <3" Never mind that I could demonstrate that I have a whole website up that, empirically, doesn't suck. Never mind that I had managed to pull off - at least part of the way - a reasonably complicated CSS maneuver (just for the record, "but it works in IE!" is clearly not my battle cry). Never mind that I just tinkered the page together during some down time at work, between distractions, using nothing but Notepad to make it happen. Never mind that I'm one of the minority who even CARES about switching out her JavaScript for CSS. Nope, leave out a thing or two up top and I'm a waste of cyberspace. That's what it felt like to me, anyway.

What I objected to second most was just the tone. Every single other participant on this thread was polite, helpful and friendly, and there are a million ways to say something - snark to an honest question is never necessary, if one really hopes to instruct and not just elevate himself by putting others down.

Again, I'm sorry for letting emotion rule my response, but I got some buttons pushed. If I do ever post again, hopefully I'll be a little more prepared.

By the way, Tyssen, thanks for the Meyerweb link - looks excellent and I can't wait to try tinkering with it. )

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drhowarddrfine
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Quote:
Obviously yes, I did leave out some codes at the top of my page, which were fixable in about two seconds.
So I'm vindicated.

You put up a page that was totally unworkable and missing the very basics of code and asked what was wrong then wonder why I may have appeared, and admit I felt, irritated.

BTW, your other page doesn't work in firefox and doesn't validate either.

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drhowarddrfine wrote:
Quote:
Obviously yes, I did leave out some codes at the top of my page, which were fixable in about two seconds.
So I'm vindicated.

I don't think you're vindicated at all. I think Tracy has a very valid point.
As for this:

Quote:
When someone posts code that had no understanding of how a web page is supposed to be coded and obviously cut and paste of other things (and it was) I could have gotten a lot nastier.

Just what would have been gained by getting nastier? Who would've benefitted? When is getting 'nastier' ever justified? :?

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drhowarddrfine
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Tyssen, you said she couldn't have changed her page before you looked at it, implying I looked at it wrong, but she said she did change it.

I said I could have gotten nastier. I didn't get nastier. If I wanted to I could have said some terrible things but I didn't, so don't be implying, again, that I did or did not do something.

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Whether I implied anything or not, and how you've taken that, has got nothing to do with the point Tracy's making about your first response to her question.

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drhowarddrfine
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So tell me, how was I nasty?
In her OP, she said it was cobbled together. Her comment, not mine. I just reiterated what she said.
My second line was that it was not a valid page. The first line in the code was <div> and had no doctype, no html/head/body tags at all, no end tags, no closing <div> tags...nothing. Is that a nasty comment? (I know you never saw the original code and she said she changed it before you saw it).
So I said no html and body tags, and then some, because there was more. Was that a nasty comment?

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drhowarddrfine wrote:
So tell me, how was I nasty?

I didn't say you were nasty (the usage of the word was yours originally). And neither did Tracy. But obviously she felt aggrieved by your response to her. And I thought a slightly friendlier tone could've been used (especially with a first-time poster).
This situation is the sort of thing that has been discussed in this thread.

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Let's get back on topic, please Evil continue this via PM if you wish , but I'd suggest letting it drop. We don't want two fantastic members falling out now, do we?

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tracyberna
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One last clarification and I quit, Mr. Moderator, I swear...

Since everyone but the original offending replier to this thread seems to understand that my beef has never been with the fact that errors were pointed out, but the tone and manner in which they were pointed out (in fact, the original replier seems to have the strange idea that proof of another's errors entitles him to snippiness), I haven't made much of trying to defend myself on what those errors actually were.

But as my sins have developed the curious habit of multiplying with each subsequent iteration, I thought I'd at least try to put down my official admission of what they actually were.

For the record, my world-rocking, puppy-kicking, make-the-baby-Jesus-cry errors amounted to the omission of exactly three tags: the initial <html> tag, and the </body> and </html> tags at the bottom. There was, in fact, a <body> tag and a doctype - I distinctly remember checking it for correctness against an article at A List Apart before posting. The page did not, in fact, begin with a <div>. My errors were not errors of ignorance, they were oversights, as I've gotten used to coding programs doing a lot of that sort of thing for me, and here I wasn't using one. And far from being "completely unworkable," it presented beautifully in Firefox 1.0.7, regardless of those omissions. There was no malfunction (there, anyway) to indicate anthing was amiss.

And really, I'm pretty sure the concoction of a working "div#navigator ul li#tee a:hover span" tag is pretty far down on the list of things a complete coding moron can accomplish. There were many specialized tags in the page that weren't featured in any of the tutorials I mentioned.

And last but not least, for what it's worth, the original test document (http://www.tracyberna.com/temporary/test.html) has now been fixed to validate within an inch of its life, for HTML and CSS, up to and including character encoding. I suppose I should thank the original replier for finally motivating me to learn so much about validation. And though I'm sure it's small comfort, he can sleep at least a bit easier knowing that there is one fewer of my net-fouling documents out there polluting the world with bad code.

And with that, I'm done. Really.

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And only fitting that you should have the final right to reply, and on that note I would draw a nice thick line under this thread please chaps.

Tracy don't give up on us though, you will still find this a useful forum for help on CSS matters despite the impression you may have initially received, we're quite a nice bunch really Smile

Hugo.

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