I have never really got into using CSS specific frameworks or reset files. Drupal, the CMS I usually build website with, is really web development framework so I didn't see the need to look closer at CSS frameworks. Recently I took the time to have a quick look at what's out there.

Reset CSS files are designed to bring all browsers back to a similar base and to remove all their inconsistencies etc. In a perfect world, where browsers all used the same default styles we wouldn't need to do anything like reset. Eric Meyer has a popular Reset CSS file used as a starting point for some of the frameworks.

One of my biggest faults as a web developer, or let's say areas that I need to improve, is my lack of concern for pixel perfection. I don't really care if something looks a little different in browser A, when compared with browser B. Most people only browse with one browser at a time so as long as it looks good in both browsers it doesn't need to be identical. Unfortunately that is not how most designers see things, so I have become pretty good at styling a site to match the provided design. Having a reset file may help in that process.

What I don't like about reset scripts is removing the default margin and padding from most elements. Eric's script at least is selective about what elements it removes it from and is a big improvement from removing them from every element.
* {margin:0; padding:0;} /* attempts to remove padding and margin from everything */

Instead of removing padding and margin, then adding them back, it would be good to have a base file that explicitly sets margin and padding values for the elements which need it. That would mostly be block level elements such as div, p, h1...

Working with Drupal, I have a base theme that sets default styles for commonly used elements. Usually I have to tweak those values to fit the design.

One thing I noticed when looking at frameworks is that many of them use versions of Contained Floats or clearfix as it is often called. Of the ones that do use it many have dropped the comment hack for IE5 Mac, either deliberately because they don't support old browsers or because their optimisation script may have stripped it. Thankfully Drupal still has it in their default.css file and the preprocessor keeps those comments.

Many of the CSS Frameworks I looked at seem to be bloated or badly structured. Do they make life easier. It may be easier for someone new to CSS to start learning a framework that has most of the work already done for them rather then learn all that is required in CSS to do it them self. For teams of front end designers having a framework could be very beneficial. I think a lone developer used to doing things by himself would be better off building his own framework then learning another.

I really haven't said much about frameworks and I would love to here the thoughts of others so I created a simple poll to see what is most often used by the knowledgeable people here.

Tony wrote:One of my biggest

Tony wrote:

One of my biggest faults as a web developer, or let's say areas that I need to improve, is my lack of concern for pixel perfection.

Personally I don't think that's a fault or a weakness, but a positive strength. The web isn't paper.

Tony wrote:I think a lone

Tony wrote:

I think a lone developer used to doing things by himself would be better off building his own framework then learning another.

That's my thoughts too. I've had a look at Blueprint but can't really see the need for it in my work. Maybe it works better in more collaborative environments.

Too an extent I'm against

Too an extent I'm against third party frameworks, as I just think they give licence to those not prepared to learn the craft, but this is an argument that has many facets.

CSS is largely not something that can be reduced to 'frameworks' it conflicts with it's base nature.

Tyssen makes a point though that perhaps these frameworks suit certain dev environments, but then that still would bring me back to the contention that this allows developers to dismiss disciplines such as CSS as of minor regard :shrug:

Poll address

None of the frameworks have been showing very popular results. I wonder if this is something to do with our members or just that they aren't as widely used as their marketing would like us to believe.

Here is the link to the CSS Framework Poll for later reference as it wont always be available in the sidebar.

I answered without reading

I answered without reading all the options properly and not considering reset in any form a "framework" so I put "Don't Use One".

I'm using Eric Meyer's CSS reset quite frequently. I added it into my basic site files and template so its there at the start with the blank web page (along with my IE6 and IE7 stylesheets). It is better than * { margin: 0; padding: 0;} although it does make using firebug a pain. I guess I should go through it and remove all the inherits to fixup firebug.

For the rest, I think with experience everyone develops methods to they are familiar with and which they can use over and over again.

Of necessity, frameworks will end up using names that are descriptive rather than semantic. For me that defeats one of the purposes of using CSS. FFS, if you are going to use class names that describe an elements appearance, why the F don't you cut out the middle man and use an inline style attribute. Talk about over complicating !!!

Chris I did the same as you

Chris I did the same as you in answering 'don't use one' as the word 'framework' tends to conjure up thoughts of programming frameworks such as Cake, coldspring etc; in that I like yourself tend to have a default sheet that I start with and also sheet to use that gives me a multifaceted master columnar layout dependent on html and body IDs then I guess I do use a framework.

I do have a overall dislike of being too pre determined in any of my css work as I just think that it's somewhat contradictory to the nature of CSS.

It may have been in the sister thread to this but I made comment to the fact that having used the reset body rules for the present work I'm doing, I found a definite problem with those inherit rules in particular the font-weight inherit which causes problems cross browser between FF and IE; in FF not seeming to honour the default bold for a heading tag.

Block Element

I think we need to place some padding rather than margin in block element . Specially for h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,h7,ul,ol,dl,dt,dd.

* {margin:0; padding:0;} /* attempts to remove padding and margin from everything */
ul li,ol li{
  padding:0 5px 0 5px; /* Some gape for li to identify child and parent. */