? It certainly feels that way, or am I just in a state of moribund depression over the whole nature of web development and Standards?

For those of you, like myself, who have attempted to march under the Standards banner, to, in their own small way, promote good practise in coding and the adherence to Standards the following links are worth reading - if that is you haven't already come across them - For those of you reasonably new to CSS/HTML please ignore these links as they paint a dismal view of the industry and you shouldn't worry about what supposed leading lights in the development/standards world are doing with seeming disregard for the real world, and ultimately, the people of most import, the Users and Authors

http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2010/01/15/podcast-44-html5-is-a-beautiful-mess/

http://www.cssquirrel.com/2010/01/11/comic-update-the-html5-show-aka-a-mess/

Ok so it's nothing hugely new to most of us that have been around a while but the first time perhaps that it's been so clearly acknowledged?

The W3C and the WHAT seem to be in danger of imploding, of causing immeasurable harm to the concept of unified standards, the sot of situation that will leave things wide open for the likes of Silverlight and Flex?

More and more over the last two or three years it has been increasingly difficult to justify the reasoned standards approach to coding. We appear to be back tracking to those dark days of 10+ years ago. Without specs being ratified and released in a timely fashion there is no cohesion and therein lies collapse.

Bah

There are so few who adhere to standards that it ultimately doesn't matter. I ignore HTML5 almost entirely.

hmm ultimately it does

hmm ultimately it does matter, many of us have spent a fair few years upholding the virtues of Standards, that time is being made a mockery of by the bodies and people who simply don't live in the real f**** world, yes I'm that pissed of with things Smile

Sittin' this one out for now

Early on, I was a great fan of the whatwg/html5wg; even contributed an idea or three myself. Then, it became obvious that there were those whose goal seemed to be to reintroduce presentation and behavior back into html, with a helping of allowing for otherwise invalid markup if it was created by a wysiwyg application. A Bad Idea™ well past its expiry date.

I admit to losing interest in the goings on. I just checked my email to find that I'm 10,020 messages behind in my reading of those very goings on. :sigh:

I think Andy Clarke's

I think Andy Clarke's attitude is the most practical. It's the way standards and advancements in techniques have worked for a while now - stuff starts getting implemented in browsers before being officially ratified by the W3C, people start using it, and then it becomes official, so like N.i.k.e says, Just Do It.

I fought in the Web Standards

I fought in the Web Standards Wars and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

Tyssen wrote: I think Andy

Tyssen wrote:

I think Andy Clarke's attitude is the most practical. .

Ha, i thought that was your comment in Andy's post! I recognized your logo. I had a thing or two to add as-well.

HTML 5

oh, there is a HTML 5?

Stomme poes wrote:

There are so few who adhere to standards that it ultimately doesn't matter. I ignore HTML5 almost entirely.

Caposoft wrote: oh, there is

Caposoft wrote:

oh, there is a HTML 5?

Sorry, but statements like that just make you look out of touch. You might just be joking about not having heard of it, but the fact that you're joking says you're not taking it seriously. Google & Apple are taking it seriously though, and while you may think that you can't use HTML5 in the wild yet (although there's already a lot of people who are: http://html5gallery.com/), you at least have to be aware of the changes that are coming and be prepared to jump on board. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it's not there is the same as vehemently sticking to tables and font tags because that's the way you've always done it.

Quote: you at least have to

Quote:

you at least have to be aware of the changes that are coming and be prepared to jump on board.

I am prepared NOT to jump on board and I don't equate that with sticking my head in the sand. I'm not going to say my code is better because it wraps anchors around divs but doesn't use fonts tags.

I agree though that one should keep ahead of what's going on with it. I'll watch it from a distance.

Just too serious

I am sorry when you haven`t understood the sarcasm. I should have quoted Hugo with "a state of moribund depression over the whole nature of web development and Standards?". There are more and more people around that do not care about standards as long as the page won`t break and they get paid. And now it is becoming even worse.

I am not sticking my head in the sand. I stay informed, but I will stick to html 4.01 until some things have become more clear. Since I am not primarily paying my bills with coding work I am pretty confident going that route.

But I admire your passion that you go off on anyone that is making a joke about it. Wink

Tyssen wrote:
Caposoft wrote:

oh, there is a HTML 5?

Sorry, but statements like that just make you look out of touch. You might just be joking about not having heard of it, but the fact that you're joking says you're not taking it seriously. Google & Apple are taking it seriously though, and while you may think that you can't use HTML5 in the wild yet (although there's already a lot of people who are: http://html5gallery.com/), you at least have to be aware of the changes that are coming and be prepared to jump on board. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it's not there is the same as vehemently sticking to tables and font tags because that's the way you've always done it.